Why God? - Light's view.

[Light]

I notice many people suggesting that one who believes in God is simply lazy, they don't seek any higher understanding.   Well, I used to believe the same thing many years ago.  So I searched and search for this greater understanding, and these different paths did lead me to some great knowledge.

But even after all I learned,  I can't even answer the simple question of , what are your thinking as you read this?

I may think I know a lot, but that's actually a funny statement when I consider the immense complexity of the universe.  Humans will always be ignorant to a degree.  There will never be some 'master equation' that can explain everything in the universe.  At best, you can have reductionist equations which are useful for describing parts of reality, but nothing can ever describe it wholly.

This realization alone points me to the belief that there must of been an intelligent force behind the creation of the universe, call it God.

Agreed though, that ignorance can obviously lead to some destructive beliefs in society, so practicing skepticism can be beneficial.

But there never will not be a degree of ignorance when it comes to the great philosophical questions, therefore I highly doubt there will ever be a world where no one believes in a God, even if that idea of God changes over time, and rightfully so.

EDIT: Split from 'Why God' thread as this would have derailed that thread which is a discussion on the naturalistic explaination for human creation of the God concept. Not a debate about the existance, or not, of God.. - Tank

[The Magic Pudding]

Humans will always be ignorant to a degree.  There will never be some 'master equation' that can explain everything in the universe.  At best, you can have reductionist equations which are useful for describing parts of reality, but nothing can ever describe it wholly.

This realization alone points me to the belief that there must of been an intelligent force behind the creation of the universe, call it God.

Well that sounds kind of wacky to me.
I had chicken for dinner tonight, wasn't cooked right, a bit dry.
This leads me to believe there's a special fowl available to those who seek it, call it super chicken.

[OldGit]

... I highly doubt there will ever be a world where no one believes in a God, even if that idea of God changes over time, and rightfully so.

In other words, no-one has ever found the truth about this entity, and no-one ever will, but people will continue to believe in what they don't understand.

I'm afraid you're right, horrifying though that prospect is.

[Light]

Heh,  I don't find that 'horrifying'.  Yes, there are some religious fanatics out there.  But I think most people don't take religions scripture so literally.   It's healthy to be skeptical, to have an open-mind.  But at the same time, I think it's almost arrogance to believe humans can 'know everything' so to speak.

I remember hearing a scientist say once,  'we don't know why the universe began but we're working on that', I couldn't help but laugh.  You think you're going to find an answer as to why the universe began or exists with science?  Either that's arrogance or denial.   

So then , there will always be a degree of ignorance, and so  religious ideas,  will never go away, although yes, people shouldn't take all of their scriptures so literally...

[fester30]

Humans will always be ignorant to a degree.  There will never be some 'master equation' that can explain everything in the universe.  At best, you can have reductionist equations which are useful for describing parts of reality, but nothing can ever describe it wholly.

This realization alone points me to the belief that there must of been an intelligent force behind the creation of the universe, call it God.

Well that sounds kind of wacky to me.
I had chicken for dinner tonight, wasn't cooked right, a bit dry.
This leads me to believe there's a special fowl available to those who seek it, call it super chicken.

The restaurant I went to last night must have been hoarding those super chickens.  I have never had such a moist, delicious chicken that wasn't undercooked.

[Davin]

I remember hearing a scientist say once,  'we don't know why the universe began but we're working on that', I couldn't help but laugh.  You think you're going to find an answer as to why the universe began or exists with science?  Either that's arrogance or denial.

It's arrogance or denial to be working on figuring out why the universe began? That doesn't make any sense in terms of arrogance, because it's humble to say that one doesn't know but is working on it. It also doesn't make sense in terms of denial because the person claiming that they don't yet know but are working on it, unless they're not working on it and they do know, this is not denial.

[Light]

I remember hearing a scientist say once,  'we don't know why the universe began but we're working on that', I couldn't help but laugh.  You think you're going to find an answer as to why the universe began or exists with science?  Either that's arrogance or denial.

It's arrogance or denial to be working on figuring out why the universe began? That doesn't make any sense in terms of arrogance, because it's humble to say that one doesn't know but is working on it. It also doesn't make sense in terms of denial because the person claiming that they don't yet know but are working on it, unless they're not working on it and they do know, this is not denial.

I don't believe the person was actually working on it.   So then, when they made the statement, I think it had to be either denial of the impossibility of such an answer, or just arrogance that science could find the answer, regardless of how impossible it may seem.

[The Magic Pudding]

But at the same time, I think it's almost arrogance to believe humans can 'know everything' so to speak.

But making stuff up is what? pious?

Who is believing humans can 'know everything' anyway.

I remember hearing a scientist say once,  'we don't know why the universe began but we're working on that', I couldn't help but laugh.  You think you're going to find an answer as to why the universe began or exists with science?  Either that's arrogance or denial.   

I find the dismissive laughter of ignorant fools particularly disturbing.

[fester30]

Right before I found Godless, I had been reading and studying some of the easier points of biology and physics.  Your argument about the complexity of the universe demanding an intelligent creator is the one I was using.  I also threw in the argument about how the chances of everything happening the way it did seem so remote a God must have done it.  Then I read some of the parts of biology and physics with longer words, which took me much longer because of having to look things up in a dictionary, not finding it there, and then having to google the same words.  Anyway...

Apparently, what happened to get Earth where it is today wasn't so special, unlikely, or even unique.  It's likely happened elsewhere.  The life and evolution thing had some trial and error, as well, as there were attempts after a couple billion years, then extinction, then attempt, then extinction.  Was God messing up before he finally got it right, or was this just about his entertainment?  Is the god that created our planet and ecosystems the same god that created those of another planet in another solar system, or are there multiple gods and each one gets its own solar system?

I'm atheist (like the kind who completely deny the existence of any gods described in the primary religions on this planet).  Is it possible that there is a god out there?  Like so much else in life and philosophy, it depends on how you define god.  "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic," as Arther C. Clarke points out.  There may be a sufficiently advanced race of creatures out there that has advanced technologies or abilities due to exposure to our yellow sun like flying and seeing through people's clothes.  They would be gods to us, but still not the creators of the universe.

[Davin]

I remember hearing a scientist say once,  'we don't know why the universe began but we're working on that', I couldn't help but laugh.  You think you're going to find an answer as to why the universe began or exists with science?  Either that's arrogance or denial.

It's arrogance or denial to be working on figuring out why the universe began? That doesn't make any sense in terms of arrogance, because it's humble to say that one doesn't know but is working on it. It also doesn't make sense in terms of denial because the person claiming that they don't yet know but are working on it, unless they're not working on it and they do know, this is not denial.

I don't believe the person was actually working on it.   So then, when they made the statement, I think it had to be either denial of the impossibility of such an answer, or just arrogance that science could find the answer, regardless of how impossible it may seem.

The scientist said "we're" (at least in the quote you provided), and being that many a scientist are working on it, no matter when the scientist made the statement, it's still true. The scientist did not make the claim that science could find the answer, only that they were working on it. So your statements still don't make sense in terms of arrogance or denial.

[Light]

But at the same time, I think it's almost arrogance to believe humans can 'know everything' so to speak.

But making stuff up is what? pious?

Who is believing humans can 'know everything' anyway.

Making stuff up has nothing to do with my original point.   It's the acknowledgement on the limits of knowledge, which can then lead people to believe in a concept such as God.    

[Light]

The scientist said "we're" (at least in the quote you provided), and being that many a scientist are working on it, no matter when the scientist made the statement, it's still true. The scientist did not make the claim that science could find the answer, only that they were working on it. So your statements still don't make sense in terms of arrogance or denial.

Why would anyone actually believe they can answer such a question with science?  Science is not concerned with such questions as why the universe exists.  So, people are either in denial of this , or it was just an expression of arrogance.

[The Magic Pudding]

Right before I found Godless,

I'm sure whatever you said after that was Fester grade excellence but there is a thread that has been waiting for you contribution.
http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=8902.15

[Tank]

But at the same time, I think it's almost arrogance to believe humans can 'know everything' so to speak.

But making stuff up is what? pious?

Who is believing humans can 'know everything' anyway.

Making stuff up has nothing to do with my original point.   It's the acknowledgement on the limits of knowledge, which can then lead people to believe in a make up a concept such as God.    

Which is more probable?

A) That God(s) actually exist
B) Terrified apes, with just enough brains to be dangerous, filled the gaps in their understanding with wishful thinking?

I'll go with B thank you very much  

[Crow]

I remember hearing a scientist say once,  'we don't know why the universe began but we're working on that', I couldn't help but laugh.  You think you're going to find an answer as to why the universe began or exists with science?  Either that's arrogance or denial.

If I actually posted what I thought whilst reading that I would have been banned outright. In fact I am finding it very hard not to break the civility rule recently.