Would the world be a better place without religion.

[unholy1971]

I recently had a debate with a friend, my position was that the world would be a much better place without religion of any kind.  Her position was the world needed religion.  Her stance was that religion gave people hope, and prevented many people from acting unethically.  She continued her argument by stating that the fear of god prevented many people from committing crimes, stealing, etc.  What do you guys think? 

[Tank]

My wife and I have argued about this quite a few times. In her view religion is neccessary evil for the masses. In my view religion is an historical hang over that has no place in the world any more. But I don't think getting rid of institutionalised superstition will be quick or easy. But if humanity is to progress beyond relience on childhood fantasy the removal must happen.

So I think the transition between a supernatural and natural world views will be difficult but critical if humanity is to become all that it can be.

[Jose AR]

Hello unholy, great topic!

Unfortunately, there is no reason to say the world would be a better place without religion. I want to believe this, (I do believe it) much there is reason to expect it.

I completely disagree with the idea that we need religion to keep us on the right track or to give us comfort. Instead I take comfort in the idea that the strongest arguments in favour of religion are so weak! Arguments for God, religion, and belief have become more watered down and diluted in the last 200 years, that people say "we need god to stop us from stealing"! It is too easy to look at jail populations and see that the incarcerated represent all religions. If the position were true, jails would have more godless inmates than not.

If someone gets comfort from the "idea" of church or the routine of music, candles, and incense, that is nice. I suspect the same person would derive similar comfort from dressing in flannel while drinking something warm next to a toasty fireplace, especially if it snowing. The 'comfort' seems to be somehow the very rock solid base of religion: that the person who I loved and is now dead, is OK, somehow. I guess its a nice thought, but it doesn't prove god, or the need for belief or religion.

BUT, a world without religion might be just as crappy as our own. I would like to try the experiment and see for myself. (It seems to me that I have way more hope in the future of humanity than the religious. )

The world doesn't need religion but many people seem to. The world would be a better place if we all made our own decisions instead of "up-loading" the tough ones to god.

Jose AR

[Asmodean]

Well, I doubt any of us are in position to make a good educated assessment on that subject, but I think the world would certainly be a different place without religion.

In my opinion, yes, the world would be a better place without gods and silly superstitions... Who knows, perhaps if religions never came about, we would be out there exploring the galaxy right now, and I don't doubt that our understanding of how the world around us works would be broader than it is today.

On the other hand, it is also possible that in that alternate reality, someone who was butchered in the name of some deity survived and fathered a kid, who brought about the next great extinction.

I think that rather than operate in would-bes, we should focus on making the world we do live in better, and if that means down with religion, well, that's a whole different story.

[Sweetdeath]

I always think yes.
I'm Irish, and the war there between two different religions is sickening.
In Africa, even the U.S, there is constant violence because someone worships a different stupid god.
This subject is pretty black/white for me. ;___; I always wish I will live long enough to see most of religion fade into darkness, yet stupid people and places like Italy made that but a dream.

[Whitney]

I think the answer depends on figuring out if religion actually does prevent bad people from doing bad things and on the same token if, in other situations, it causes otherwise good people to do bad things.   If the former is true then we are better with religion but if the latter is true then we are better without it (or perhaps the two just even each other out).

[Sweetdeath]

I think the answer depends on figuring out if religion actually does prevent bad people from doing bad things and on the same token if, in other situations, it causes otherwise good people to do bad things.   If the former is true then we are better with religion but if the latter is true then we are better without it (or perhaps the two just even each other out).

From my personal life experience, I definitely think it's the latter. :<

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Never gonna happen.  It's a part of too many people's experience.  Best that can happen is that all religions become peaceful. But that probably won't happen either.

[The Magic Pudding]

I think the answer depends on figuring out if religion actually does prevent bad people from doing bad things and on the same token if, in other situations, it causes otherwise good people to do bad things.   If the former is true then we are better with religion but if the latter is true then we are better without it (or perhaps the two just even each other out).

That seems to assume we don't replace it with anything better.
"Give me a child for for his first seven years and I'll give you the man." Maybe the neuroses too.
What if we give young people lessons in ethics, religion for me seems hypocritical it pushes people to rebel against it and the good is thrown out with the bad.  The current system of helping the young find sociable values is pretty hit and miss, churches, scout type org's, sport, school teachers.  I suppose I just want kids given reasons to be good that's not based on a lie, it happens but not enough.

[Sweetdeath]

Never gonna happen.  It's a part of too many people's experience.  Best that can happen is that all religions become peaceful. But that probably won't happen either.

I disagree. I actually do have hope more people like the ones on this forum will be born and exist in the future.

[Asmodean]

Never is a very long time frame, you know... Religions may die out yet, even though none of us here will be around to see it.

[xSilverPhinx]

It really depends on what kind of religion you're talking about. Would the world be better without Islam or Christianity? Perhaps. Monotheistic religions who believe that they have the ultimate Truth are inherently more intolerant of the different than polytheistic religions, such as Hinduism. Truth just isn't the issue to them as it is to people who believe in the Abrahamic faiths.

I guess if you want to have a good picture of what the world without religion might look like, take the more secular countries such as Sweden and see how they're doing. Socially, they're not bad actually, way ahead of most of the more religious countries in many social indicators.

I'm actually not too sure whether I think it's a necessary evil to control the masses, otherwise everything would fall into chaos. I'd like to think that people are grown up enough to lead their own lives responsibly. 

IMO, religion doesn't necessarily need to go away, but it should change. Bring it up to date and focus less on Truth (which they don't know anyway; no religion has been able to demonstrate that they do) and more on personal philosophies to live by. 

[Sandra Craft]

I recently had a debate with a friend, my position was that the world would be a much better place without religion of any kind.  Her position was the world needed religion.  Her stance was that religion gave people hope, and prevented many people from acting unethically.  She continued her argument by stating that the fear of god prevented many people from committing crimes, stealing, etc.  What do you guys think? 

There actually is a tribe in the Amazon that has no concept of god, or any religion and never has had one.  Attempts to convert them have been wasted effort.  If I'm remembering this correctly, while their society isn't without conflict or difficulties they do seem to have less of them than other societies.  So I would say, yes, the world would have been a better place without religion but for most of us that boat has sailed and we're stuck dealing with religion now.

[Sweetdeath]

^^
That's really interesting.

[squidfetish]

I used to be in favour of getting rid of religion altogether as soon as possible,  but now I'm not so sure.  On various forums I've encountered a few religious people who maintain that the only thing stopping them killing, raping, stealing or whatever is fear of not going to heaven.  How much of that is bullshit to justify their beliefs I can't really say.  Also, it does seem to provide hope for some, or more correctly, more the illusion of hope.  OK, belief that God is going to sort your shit out is about as worthwhile as believing that the green guys from planet Zog are going to sort your shit out, but some people need it to get through the day and all that.  I'd like to see religion disappear, but it's going to have to happen gradually through education rather than pulling the rug out from underneath them quickly.

That said, I don't see it happening in the foreseeable future as governments have too much invested in religion as a social control tool - and a very potent one at that.

It would be great to see the back of religion but the depressing truth is that humans can be nasty, brutal and avaricious little bastards, and if they can't demonise another group through religion, they'll do it through race, ethnicity, class, gender, soccer teams or whatever else makes them 'different'.  But I guess at least they wouldn't be able to claim divine backing for their actions.