So you just died and...

[xSilverPhinx]

So all the worse kind of criminals go to heaven and receive the ultimate reward just because they believe.
All of this is just so insanely out there. What a mess religion is.

I never claimed it made sense. This is just what is taught in most of the churches I've been to. If you've ever heard of the Chick Publications tracts, there's one that show a serial killer going to Heaven because he repented for his sins and asked God into his life, where as the sheriff, who was a good man, went to Hell because he never was a Christian.

I'm familiar with those, and if I wasn't already aware of what they were, I would've thought that they were satirising those sort of beliefs.

My take on it is, based on the fear of uncertainty and hell, beliefs such as that and the Calvinist's version (for example) of proof that you're going to heaven is that you're rich here on Earth are the easiest to measure. That is, people like those sorts of beliefs (even though they aren't totally compatible) because then you could be sure. If you believe that all it takes is belief and you know you believe, then that's way more comfortable than some other fuzzy belief where you can't be as sure. If you believe that being rich is a sign that you're going to heaven and you're rich, then that is also a comfortable position. Measurable and certain.

Entrance into heaven based on works along isn't as comfortable. What sort of works? How much is good enough? What is more important, intent or result of those works?



Makes way more sense to me that way...

[xSilverPhinx]

Maybe he was insisting the wealthy give all their riches to the poor, as Jesus suggested (love to see a conservative politician try to get away with that some day).

LOL

I'm going off into wild speculations myself, but I'd like to give him the chance to say what someone who is "too Christian" thinks before I make up my mind.

He's anonymous enough, it's not like he's going to be hunted down for defending his beliefs.

[not your typical...]

My take on it is, based on the fear of uncertainty and hell, beliefs such as that and the Calvinist's version (for example) of proof that you're going to heaven is that you're rich here on Earth are the easiest to measure. That is, people like those sorts of beliefs (even though they aren't totally compatible) because then you could be sure. If you believe that all it takes is belief and you know you believe, then that's way more comfortable than some other fuzzy belief where you can't be as sure. If you believe that being rich is a sign that you're going to heaven and you're rich, then that is also a comfortable position. Measurable and certain.

Entrance into heaven based on works along isn't as comfortable. What sort of works? How much is good enough? What is more important, intent or result of those works?

Makes way more sense to me that way...

That's assuming that all of this is real of course, which I'm going to assume you don't believe. and in all honesty from my own interpretation of how the Bible instructs people to live (with a bit more brainwashing from church) is that once someone accepts Christ into their life, they're supposed to not want to do bad things anymore and want to do nothing but good. Personally, I've never really experienced this, which for a short period of time caused me to doubt my own faith, but then I just accepted that some people weren't meant to be angels. The world needs a good dose of demons to remind those who go on blind faith that if they think earth is bad, hell sure isn't gonna be fun.

[xSilverPhinx]

My take on it is, based on the fear of uncertainty and hell, beliefs such as that and the Calvinist's version (for example) of proof that you're going to heaven is that you're rich here on Earth are the easiest to measure. That is, people like those sorts of beliefs (even though they aren't totally compatible) because then you could be sure. If you believe that all it takes is belief and you know you believe, then that's way more comfortable than some other fuzzy belief where you can't be as sure. If you believe that being rich is a sign that you're going to heaven and you're rich, then that is also a comfortable position. Measurable and certain.

Entrance into heaven based on works along isn't as comfortable. What sort of works? How much is good enough? What is more important, intent or result of those works?

Makes way more sense to me that way...

That's assuming that all of this is real of course, which I'm going to assume you don't believe. and in all honesty from my own interpretation of how the Bible instructs people to live (with a bit more brainwashing from church) is that once someone accepts Christ into their life, they're supposed to not want to do bad things anymore and want to do nothing but good. Personally, I've never really experienced this, which for a short period of time caused me to doubt my own faith, but then I just accepted that some people weren't meant to be angels. The world needs a good dose of demons to remind those who go on blind faith that if they think earth is bad, hell sure isn't gonna be fun.

Of course, assuming it's real, which true believers do. In their world, it's valid...

I don't even see it as an angel/demon thing or as some part in a greater scheme. Rather the world needs those to call out "ridiculous!" when something deserves it and if some people are living in Hell on earth, it is of their own making.  

As for those who see themselves in some sort of "spiritual" warfare, especially against certain types of situations and people, are a bit slow to realise that they're fighting a battle that can't be won. No use repeatedly banging heads together. It's a question of time.

Edited to add: I realise that what I wrote doesn't make that much sense but I feel a bit too mentally disperse to rewite it into something that does. I'm staring at the monitor blankly... 

[xm1]

I believe that this could still actually happen, that I will still find myself before god and there would be some reason why god considered me good enough to be in heaven.

That the bible would not be adhered to because it was a work of man and not of god and I would find myself surrounded by family and friends and pets that all knew me before passing away. 
It would all be beautiful and warm and the pain would be gone.
We would huddle together and everyone including my cats would tell me its okay and we will live on happily forever.
And I won't even know the final second when it all just goes black.

And if it was real.  I shouldn't be the least bit worred.  If the god I was raised to believe in was real he should know exactly why I chose what I chose and he should know where exactly I stand without me saying a single word.  I would be cheerful.  At that moment it would not be me on trial, but god.  If he accepts me, then I would accept him, for seeing all the reasons I turned away and understanding that anyone in my place should have done the same thing.  If he rejects me, then I reject him, for being blind to the plight of this world and the filth that his followers carry out in his name.  If he casts me into hell, he is definitely evil and so all of his kingdom, and I would ask for no part of it.

[Asmodean]

I would find myself surrounded by family and friends and pets that all knew me before passing away.  
It would all be beautiful and warm and the pain would be gone.
We would huddle together and everyone including my cats would tell me its okay and we will live on happily forever.

You just gave The Asmo an ulcer.

[xm1]

You just gave The Asmo an ulcer.

Sorry, thats just how every nde ive ever read about seems to plays out.

[Sandra Craft]

I would find myself surrounded by family and friends and pets that all knew me before passing away.  
It would all be beautiful and warm and the pain would be gone.
We would huddle together and everyone including my cats would tell me its okay and we will live on happily forever.

You just gave The Asmo an ulcer.

The cats part was OK.

[Asmodean]

The cats part was OK.

Well, yes, but the overall sentiment of it is so disgustingly... Sweet. And Asmodean, he gets ulcers from such and thus he has to perform acts of great evil to cure them.

When The Asmo sees someone huddling together, he wants it to be in fear, for one. 

[xm1]

The cats part was OK.

Well, yes, but the overall sentiment of it is so disgustingly... Sweet. And Asmodean, he gets ulcers from such and thus he has to perform acts of great evil to cure them.

When The Asmo sees someone huddling together, he wants it to be in fear, for one. 

The description was intended to be exactly that to make a point.  Do you disagree, misunderstand, or just don't take interest?

[Asmodean]

The description was intended to be exactly that to make a point.  Do you disagree, misunderstand, or just don't take interest?

Neither, really. Just stating that it gave me an ulcer 

[OldGit]

And if it was real.  I shouldn't be the least bit worred.  If the god I was raised to believe in was real he should know exactly why I chose what I chose and he should know where exactly I stand without me saying a single word.  I would be cheerful.  At that moment it would not be me on trial, but god.  If he accepts me, then I would accept him, for seeing all the reasons I turned away and understanding that anyone in my place should have done the same thing.  If he rejects me, then I reject him, for being blind to the plight of this world and the filth that his followers carry out in his name.  If he casts me into hell, he is definitely evil and so all of his kingdom, and I would ask for no part of it.

I agree with your moral standpoint, but I'd not be unworried.  Judging by the Bible, God may well be an evil maniac, so if one ends up burning in the eternal fire it won't be a great comfort to have won the intellectual argument.

[Sweetdeath]

Argh, I went to target and missed all the fun. XD

Ah, well..
You know the whole "a serial killer can repent and go to heaven " thing ALWAYS bothered me.
It's like, if god is so awesome , then why doesn't he intervine in ANY way when an innocent is being raped or murdered?

A christian answer I usually get is "god loves his children so much. He must forgive their sins and hope they are guided to him."

What?!

[MinnesotaMike]

Found this little gem floating around the internet, thought it was relevant...

[OldGit]

^