The Tree Of Knowledge

[Stevil]

Even if you could prove, without a doubt, that the bible is a historical source, that still says nothing about it being "written by God." Or inspired by God. Or whatever. Ancient =/= holy.

Beyond that, I still don't understand why God would need to create human beings with choice at all. If he is a perfect, whole, all-powerful being - why doesn't he just sit around basking in his own awesomeness? Why would he create humans at all, give them choice and then spend the next 2 thousands years being disappointed in us because we chose to reject him?

If god is perfect and has no deficiencies and is unchanging then there would be absolutely no need to create existence.
It would be pointless.
For a god whom knows everything, this god has nothing new to learn about anything, nothing to discover, nothing to experiment with. 14 billion years of our Universe's existence would be like reading the same sentence over and over again forever. "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog". For a human, the first time we read a sentence, it is something new. We look to understand it, then we might analyze it to discover what it means, then we might try to uncover any hidden meaning, or any strange pattern, hey, that sentence has every letter of the alphabet, wow.
But after a few short seconds we would become bored of it. But a god whom knows everything already, god know the sentence would be written, god knew the sentence would contain all the letters, go knew how the author went about creating the sentence. Now think about existence as being a sentence that god already knew everything about. Wouldn't it be extremely tedious to create and observe for 14 billion years that which you already know everything about? Creation from a god perspective is pointless.

[Stevil]

Catholics are an organized religion. Jesus being without sin, though tempted in ways we can't imagine, remained faithful. You know, the Catholics, though their literature will reveal the true origins of hell and immortal soul, think when you die if you are "bad" you go to hell. But the Bible says that sin = death. Take away sin and you take away death. The Bible says that upon death the debt of sin is paid in full, so there can't be a hell or purgatory.

The Bible says that there will be a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous.

To answer your question after resurrection of the dead we can become like Jesus, without sin, and live forever upon the Earth. 

So sin = death and your fascinating sentence in the god inspired bible says "upon death the debt of sin is paid in full"
So lets take the cryptics out and rewrite it, replacing sin with death because they are exactly equal.

"upon death the debt of death is paid in full"
Such an enlightening sentence, god was at his best when he inspired some anonymous man to author that gem. This book, the bible, must be a fascinating read.

[Too Few Lions]

There is the historical record of the Bible. Now you can't disprove it so give me your evidence against its reliability without the appalling and undeserved overconfidence. This is - what - the third time I have asked you? And you have given me NOTHING. Not very convincing. 

and in all your posts you never managed to raise one piece of evidence that actually proved any of the stories in your holy book represented anything like historical reality, and are anything more than the myths of superstitious and fairly backwards people living a few thousand years ago.
The Bible is as much a 'historical record' as the Odyssey or the Epic of Gilgamesh, I find it incredible that anyone can seriously consider such childish myths as the Garden of Eden, the Flood, or Sodom and Gomorrah as being historical in the 21st Century. When the historical inaccuracies of the biblical stories or the earlier myths from which the biblical stories derived were pointed out to you, all you did was ignore them.

[Genericguy]

Let's assume the story is true for a second. That means god deliberately made these two people lacking the ability to know what is right and wrong. He then told them not to eat some fruit or they will be punished (as well as their unborn ancestors for some reason). Of course, not knowing that it's wrong to eat the fruit, they eat the fruit. It's not until AFTER they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that they realize what is right and what is wrong.

It's like telling a deaf person, that's walking, your going to punch him if he takes another step. Not a very nice god.

[Sweetdeath]

Let's assume the story is true for a second. That means god deliberately made these two people lacking the ability to know what is right and wrong. He then told them not to eat some fruit or they will be punished (as well as their unborn ancestors for some reason). Of course, not knowing that it's wrong to eat the fruit, they eat the fruit. It's not until AFTER they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that they realize what is right and what is wrong.

It's like telling a deaf person, that's walking, your going to punch him if he takes another step. Not a very nice god.

Rofl. Poor deaf person.

Maaan, I go away for one day and miss more christian dudes. Hello, Earthling. It seems you are trying to pass on the bible as historical facts. Why exactly do you think a tree existed with special apples and pears? o__o

[Magdalena]

"...Remind me of anything I might have missed that you would like me to address.

To answer your question, do you recall when the angels came down to see if the complaint of Sodom and Gomorrah was warranted? And the homosexual men and young boys wanted to "get to know" the men (angels)?"

You forgot to mention that when the homosexual men and young boys wanted to "get to know" them (angels) Lot said to them, "No, take my daughters instead, they have never been with a man before, do to them whatever you want to them, but leave these men (angels) alone, don't touch them."...Well...something like that.

If Lot was the only good child abuser, sorry, "good man" in Sodoma, and chosen by your god, then I chose to go live and die on Castro Street in San Francisco, California for the rest of my life with people who want to "get to know" an angel, and not molest a man's daughters, at his request.

I'm just reminding you of something you might have missed that I would like you to address. 

[Stevil]

You forgot to mention that when the homosexual men and young boys wanted to "get to know" them (angels) Lot said to them, "No, take my daughters instead"

If Lot was virtuous he would have suggested they take himself rather than the angels or his daughters.

or maybe he could have suggested they go home and leave sex for another day.

[Magdalena]

You forgot to mention that when the homosexual men and young boys wanted to "get to know" them (angels) Lot said to them, "No, take my daughters instead"

If Lot was virtuous he would have suggested they take himself rather than the angels or his daughters.

or maybe he could have suggested they go home and leave sex for another day.

He wasn't virtuous at all, in fact, he and his daughters went to live in a cave, and according to the bible, the  daughters got him drunk and raped him. As a result, both of them became pregnant by him. 
Talk about holy scriptures and holy men chosen by god.

[Stevil]

You forgot to mention that when the homosexual men and young boys wanted to "get to know" them (angels) Lot said to them, "No, take my daughters instead"

If Lot was virtuous he would have suggested they take himself rather than the angels or his daughters.

or maybe he could have suggested they go home and leave sex for another day.

He wasn't virtuous at all, in fact, he and his daughters went to live in a cave, and according to the bible, the  daughters got him drunk and raped him. As a result, both of them became pregnant by him. 
Talk about holy scriptures and holy men chosen by god.

But that has no bearing on his virtue. A virtuous man can be raped and still virtuous.

BTW his family is pretty dysfunctional!

[Pharaoh Cat]

Lot is portrayed as the ancestor of the Moabites and the Ammonites, both of which at various times went to war against Israel.  It's easy to see why Israel would portray their enemies as children of incest, when you consider ancient Jewish prudishness.

[Magdalena]

[/quote]
But that has no bearing on his virtue. A virtuous man can be raped and still virtuous.

BTW his family is pretty dysfunctional!
[/quote]

Yeah, a man can be raped and still be virtuous, but in this time, this Lot guy would have a pretty hard time convincing his prison cell mate that he is innocent of the rape charges, after all, his daughters got him drunk, doesn't even remember the event, so, he is still a raped virtuous man with two daughters that now carry his two children/grandchildren.

Maybe this is why we were not allowed to eat from the tree of knowledge, so that we wouldn't judge god's choice of what he considered the only good man in Sodom. Now that we know what is right and what is wrong, perhaps even god should go to trial for genocide if what the bible states is true.

[Stevil]

Now that we know what is right and what is wrong, perhaps even god should go to trial for genocide if what the bible states is true.

Problem is that there is no such thing as objective right and wrong.
If the Christian god were made human and brought before a court, convicted of the things that are written about in the OT. This god would be condemned to death row or life imprisonment in most countries.
His crimes are much worse that what Hitler, Stalin, Mao Ze Dong, Gadafi, Bin Ladin have all done combined.
But somehow he has over 1 billion worshipers whom believe 'he' is perfect and good despite the stories in the OT that they believe are the truth and written by the god.

[Pharaoh Cat]

His crimes are much worse that what Hitler, Stalin, Mao Ze Dong, Gadafi, Bin Ladin have all done combined.
But somehow he has over 1 billion worshipers whom believe 'he' is perfect and good despite the stories in the OT that they believe are the truth and written by the god.

Congratulations!  The Logic Elf rewards anyone who thinks logically.  Look for an event that doesn't suck to happen soon in your life and when it does, think blue.


As for the god of ancient Semitic desert nomads, Yo How Very Hypocritical (YHVH) - Let's be glad there's a new invisible sheriff in town whose blue face smiles bracingly on our analysis.  Syllogise!