Hi i am new.

[Davpronk]

Hi,

I am David Pronk(davpronk), i am 17 years old and i live in Amersfoort, The Netherlands.

I am a convinced atheist, i was raised as a christian but my parents gave me the freedom of choice.

My interests are photography and webdesign.

Greetings,

David

[McQ]

Welcome davpronk!

We are glad to have you here on our forum. Feel free to jump right in!

[a_jaynepayne]

Welcome and good job to your 'rents for lettin' you choose.

[rlrose328]

Welcome, davpronk... it's wonderful that your parents let you choose!  How very progressive.  Christian parents in the US wouldn't EVER be that progressive.  :-)

[SteveS]

Hi davpronk - welcome to the forum!

[MommaSquid]

Welcome to the forum, David.  I hope you enjoy your stay.

[ryanvc76]

Welcome to the forum - score one up for Europe!

[Davpronk]

Welcome, davpronk... it's wonderful that your parents let you choose!  How very progressive.  Christian parents in the US wouldn't EVER be that progressive.  :-)

Yes, i have great parents! My parents are christian but are not strong believers. Sometimes they have their doubts about god too.

So, actually, what you are saying is, that if you are a child born in a christian family in the US you are forced to be christian too, right?

[donkeyhoty]

So, actually, what you are saying is, that if you are a child born in a christian family in the US you are forced to be christian too, right?

Yes and no.  I was raised, essentially, as a christian, but was never part of any denomination.  So, by the time I was about 10 or 11 I realized it was all a load of bullshit.  

Generally, though, people indoctrinate their kids into whatever religion they were indoctrinated into when they were young.  An endless cycle of bullshit threatening to engulf us all...

[Davpronk]

So, actually, what you are saying is, that if you are a child born in a christian family in the US you are forced to be christian too, right?

Yes and no.  I was raised, essentially, as a christian, but was never part of any denomination.  So, by the time I was about 10 or 11 I realized it was all a load of bullshit.  

Generally, though, people indoctrinate their kids into whatever religion they were indoctrinated into when they were young.  An endless cycle of bullshit threatening to engulf us all...

Yes, it is stupid that parents don't grant their children with freedom of choice. It is just like Santa Claus, when we grow older we realize that he doesn't exists. So why do we still believe in gods????

[rlrose328]

So, actually, what you are saying is, that if you are a child born in a christian family in the US you are forced to be christian too, right?

In my experience, yes... until you are out of their house.  No one can force you to believe... but parents can and do force you to participate until it is better to just give in than fight it.

I was 'forced' (for lack of a better word) to attend church, choir and sunday school until I was 17 and flat out refused to go.  I didn't believe for quite awhile, but I was afraid to say anything to my parents to that effect for fear of their rejection, which was certain.

The fundie and gellie families I know at my son's school have done a wonderful job of brainwashing their kids at their respective religions that the kids have no choice but to believe and they don't know any better... hoepfully, someday, they will.

So in that respect... the "you have no choice but to listen and learn because I'm telling you to" aspect of religious families, yes, you have no choice.  But no one can wrangle your mind unless you let them... and these kids are so young, they absolutely have no choice.

In Kindergarten, the teacher had told them one day what made rainbows.  The following day, she asked them, "So who can tell me what makes a rainbow?"  One little girl raised her hand and said, "God makes the rainbows."  To my dismay, the teacher (a seminarian) said, "Yes, that's right, but how?"  Yes, this is a public school.  Yes, I was furious.

Last year, in First Grade, the teacher was discussing how species change and merely said the word "evolution," and one of the little boys STOOD UP and said, "There is no evolution, god created EVERYTHING including the earth."  The teacher (a non-believer... I miss her!) said, "Some people believe that, yes." and continued with what she was saying.  

These are 5 and 6 year olds!  The same anti-evolution little boy was running around last year on the playground telling all the other kids there is no such thing as the Easter Bunny, leaving many kids in tears.  My son ran over to him saying, "They can believe whatever they want!  You don't have the right to tell them there's no Easter Bunny!"  Yes, I was proud.

So you see... these kids are brainwashed/indoctrinated, etc. at such a young age that by the time they may get an idea they've been lied to, they don't have the ability to break free.  Some do... we have many people on these forums who have... but it's rare here in America.

[Davpronk]

So, actually, what you are saying is, that if you are a child born in a christian family in the US you are forced to be christian too, right?

In my experience, yes... until you are out of their house.  No one can force you to believe... but parents can and do force you to participate until it is better to just give in than fight it.

I was 'forced' (for lack of a better word) to attend church, choir and sunday school until I was 17 and flat out refused to go.  I didn't believe for quite awhile, but I was afraid to say anything to my parents to that effect for fear of their rejection, which was certain.

The fundie and gellie families I know at my son's school have done a wonderful job of brainwashing their kids at their respective religions that the kids have no choice but to believe and they don't know any better... hoepfully, someday, they will.

So in that respect... the "you have no choice but to listen and learn because I'm telling you to" aspect of religious families, yes, you have no choice.  But no one can wrangle your mind unless you let them... and these kids are so young, they absolutely have no choice.

In Kindergarten, the teacher had told them one day what made rainbows.  The following day, she asked them, "So who can tell me what makes a rainbow?"  One little girl raised her hand and said, "God makes the rainbows."  To my dismay, the teacher (a seminarian) said, "Yes, that's right, but how?"  Yes, this is a public school.  Yes, I was furious.

Last year, in First Grade, the teacher was discussing how species change and merely said the word "evolution," and one of the little boys STOOD UP and said, "There is no evolution, god created EVERYTHING including the earth."  The teacher (a non-believer... I miss her!) said, "Some people believe that, yes." and continued with what she was saying.  

These are 5 and 6 year olds!  The same anti-evolution little boy was running around last year on the playground telling all the other kids there is no such thing as the Easter Bunny, leaving many kids in tears.  My son ran over to him saying, "They can believe whatever they want!  You don't have the right to tell them there's no Easter Bunny!"  Yes, I was proud.

So you see... these kids are brainwashed/indoctrinated, etc. at such a young age that by the time they may get an idea they've been lied to, they don't have the ability to break free.  Some do... we have many people on these forums who have... but it's rare here in America.

The horibble part is that the minds of young children are easy to manipulate. They nearly have a mind of their own, because their parents are a important part of their lifes, and a role model to them. So whatever their parents or teachers tell them, children believe it.

Well, i like that teacher you were talking about, because she is a non-believer and she is not brainwashing the children with religious talk, she is giving the children the right to choose for themselves.

I am not saying people should not be christian, or moslim or whatever, i only want people to have the freedom of choice, and that starts from childhood.

[Tom62]

Hallo David. Leuk om nog een nederlander op dit forum te zien.

[Davpronk]

Hallo David. Leuk om nog een nederlander op dit forum te zien.

Maar ligt Darmstadt niet in Duitsland dan? Of ben je een Nederlander die in het buitenland woont?

[rlrose328]

Thank goodness for Babelfish.com!  LOL!