Benefits of atheistic "evangelism"

[bandit4god]

The volume of atheistic evangelism--that is, proactive attempts to convince others that God does not exist--has ratcheted up a great deal even in my short lifetime.  Could the atheists here shed some light on their reasons for doing so?

Said differently, what value are you trying to create (if that's, in fact, what you're doing) and by what standard could it be considered valuable?

[Ildiko]

Well, if you changed that to

The volume of evangelism--that is, proactive attempts to convince others that God does exist--has ratcheted up a great deal even in my lifetime.

then I would agree with you. But then I'm from the UK. I now live in Italy, having arrived here via a great many other countries. I have been plagued by Jehovah's Witnesses and the happy clappy brigade, and here we have an infestation of Mormons. But I have never had an atheist knock on my door to "show me the light". I have never known a bunch of militant atheists demand government funding to open a school where they can indoctrinate children. I have never even considered evangelising - a ludicrous term in this context - or even cared what other people believe. I just ask you theists to leave me in peace.

If indeed there is atheist "evangelising" going on in your country, what form does this take in real life?

[Crow]

I cant answer for others as I am not them, but here is my take on it any way. Personally I'm not an atheist that goes out of my way to actively convince others that a god does not exist, however I will argue my point if needed or asked directly on an issue concerning my atheism. Now that's out of the way and know my position you can pretty much see that my opinion is guess work.

I think what you have described as "atheistic 'evangelism'" is a misinterpretation of the actual situation, but what you are seeing is an inevitable counteraction to the rise of outspoken christian fundamentalism in the US in a country where it has freedom of speech and a rising atheist population that don't want to be governed by those that want to impose restrictions on peoples lives, that they see not only as immoral but a step backwards and oppressive that has arose from believing in something that to an atheist is no different than Santa Claus. Also the media are giving the atheists the floor with TV, movies, books, and newspapers which may be over hyping the situation (i.e. dangerous world syndrome) because the more controversial and outspoken the better the ratings.

Though just to point out. The case in the UK is very different than what it is in the States. (well the perception that I can gain from comments and American media).

[Tank]

The volume of atheistic evangelism--that is, proactive attempts to convince others that God does not exist--has ratcheted up a great deal even in my short lifetime.  Could the atheists here shed some light on their reasons for doing so?

This is an interesting question and one that I have pondered on occasion. There is a definite trans-atlantic view to this question. In the UK evangelism of any kind is considered at least eccentric (and thus to be walked past quickly as one would a smelly tramp) or at worst down right bad mannered! The UK is also far less theistic than the US and becoming less theistic by the day (Hallelujah!) So in the UK evangelising atheists are about as common as rocking horse droppings, with the notable exceptions of Dawkins and Christopher Hitchins (who is now an American citizen anyway).

It's been enlightening to be on a number theistic/atheistic forums over the past few years and there are always a high proportion of Yanks in attendance, so I've had a good chance to observe from the outside. I think there are a number of factors at play here. In no particular order.

I have read literally thousands of introduction posts and maybe 50% from American atheists have said, or had sentiments, such as, 'I didn't realise there were other people like me'. 'I'm scared of telling friends/family about my atheism.', 'My parents will hate me!', 'I'm so isolated.'. Being an overt atheist in parts of America takes real courage and determination due to the undisguised hatred exhibited by some sections of American society.

The Internet is making a huge difference to the isolated atheist. There have always been atheists and with few exception they have always been in the minority and considered aberrations and/or dangerous. The anonymity of the Internet allows atheists to communicate in a way never before possible, in safety and without fear of ridicule or threat.

Freedom of speech in the US means that atheists who are prepared to risk admitting their world view cannot be suppressed, however much the theistic majority want to. This probably means that the atheists that do speak up tend to be perceived/presented as outspoken/evangelistic; particularly in the media that always like shit disturbing.

The American style of debate (and I use that word advisedly) is also a contributing factor. In my experience working with Americans and on Internet forums, Americans often take the attitude 'I don't give a shit what you think. I'm right! Prove me wrong buddy!'. This forces both interlocutors to be highly vociferous in their arguments and how the argue. The American political system of standing at the 'stump' also influences how messages are expected to be delivered, in a strident and uncompromising manner.

There is also the issue of released oppression. People who are given, or take, a voice want to use it. Classic recent examples would be the emancipation of women an the LGBT movement. When an oppressed group start trying to right palpable wrongs they are perceived as evangelising, whether they are or not, by the majority that sees itself as supporting the status quo.

In the past theists have claimed authority, moral superiority and ultimate knowledge and there was no realistic alternative to that situation. There is now. Secular society has cut back implicit theistic authority. The immoral behaviour of Muslims (9/11 etc.) has caused people to question the moral high ground of all theists. Finally education has made scientific understanding available to wide swathes of society where it would not previously been available. This has shown up the inadequacies of theistic 'ultimate knowledge' and cut into the very roots of theistic strength, that it is the only real truth.

I think all these factors combined make atheistic evangelism the US inevitable.

Said differently, what value are you trying to create (if that's, in fact, what you're doing) and by what standard could it be considered valuable?

From a UK perspective we already have what US atheists seek, a level playing field where atheists are not treated like shit. If theists, like you, were prepared to keep your opinions off of atheist forums there would be no need for forums like this in the first place. You and people like you are unintentionally part of the problem. The Christian religion requires its followers to reach out and prevent atheism as atheism is simply wrong. Thus for some Christians it is utterly impossible for them to respect atheism as a valid world view and keep their opinions to themselves. IMO this lack of respect for the atheistic community by the theistic community crates a reactive evangelism that is required simply to allow the atheistic community to survive.

However in addition to the reactive element there is a proactive element that simply wants to break the hold of institutionalised superstitions that are no longer relevent in today's world, but I'll leave that to another thread 

[DeterminedJuliet]

I have little to no interest in atheist "evangelism" in my day-to-day life. I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of people who know me are unaware that I'm an atheist.

I don't make it an issue until someone else does.

[Sandra Craft]

The volume of atheistic evangelism--that is, proactive attempts to convince others that God does not exist--has ratcheted up a great deal even in my short lifetime.  Could the atheists here shed some light on their reasons for doing so?

Said differently, what value are you trying to create (if that's, in fact, what you're doing) and by what standard could it be considered valuable?

Could you provide some concrete examples of this evangilizing?  That would help a lot in explaining whatever it is.  Personally, I've never see anything I'd consider atheist evangelizing.

[Recusant]

Could you provide some concrete examples of this evangilizing?  That would help a lot in explaining whatever it is.  Personally, I've never see anything I'd consider atheist evangelizing.

Atheist Evangelist Brother Sam Singleton's Rules of Engagement.

Brother Sam Not Funny

Maybe not what you were thinking of, but Brother Sam does bill himself as an Atheist Evangelist.

[bandit4god]

If theists, like you, were prepared to keep your opinions off of atheist forums there would be no need for forums like this in the first place. You and people like you are unintentionally part of the problem.

Do you and others want me to discontinue posting on this forum?  Had no idea you felt my presence here was so oppressive.  Happy to respect whatever you decide.

[xSilverPhinx]

Speaking for myself, I couldn't care less what people believe in, as long as they don't adversely affect myself and other like-minded people.

I do find theists who outright door-to-door evangelize feel offended when an atheist speaks out or questions their beliefs to be ridiculous, especially because they're the ones who came looking for trouble in the first place. People who do this in classrooms is one example, there's little reason to worry about offending these types.

As for forums, I personally like differing perspectives, and if I have a problem with it, I can always just ignore the person. I wouldn't blame theists on a theistic forum for instance for trying to evangelize to me, were I to register and talk to them.

[Sandra Craft]

Could you provide some concrete examples of this evangilizing?  That would help a lot in explaining whatever it is.  Personally, I've never see anything I'd consider atheist evangelizing.

Atheist Evangelist Brother Sam Singleton's Rules of Engagement.

Brother Sam Not Funny

Maybe not what you were thinking of, but Brother Sam does bill himself as an Atheist Evangelist.

Not at all what I was thinking of, but I sincerely covet his specs.

[Tank]

If theists, like you, were prepared to keep your opinions off of atheist forums there would be no need for forums like this in the first place. You and people like you are unintentionally part of the problem.

Do you and others want me to discontinue posting on this forum?  Had no idea you felt my presence here was so oppressive.  Happy to respect whatever you decide.

Goodness no! You're a member just like any other. I apologise if I have made you feel unwelcome. The point I was attempting to make, evidently very badly, was that proselytising and preaching (theistic or atheistic) risks a backlash. It has been my experience on atheist centric forums that many of the ex-theists join specifically to get away from theists to a 'place of safety' where they can explore their new world view and don't appreciate theists butting in on this process. I'm having great difficulty articulating what I'm thinking so please bear with me an accept my apology for upsetting you. I'll come back to this if I think I can get my thought down correctly.

A classic example of thoughtlessnees on the part of a theist is our new member John 3:16, if he had any consideration for the environment he was entering he would not have used that name. At the moment I'm considering him thoughtless, he may turn out to be a troll or a Poe, only time will tell, but frankly he blotted his copy book before he even posted and then used pajorative terms in his second post. If he carries on the way he started he won't last long.

[Asmodean]

The volume of atheistic evangelism--that is, proactive attempts to convince others that God does not exist--has ratcheted up a great deal even in my short lifetime.  Could the atheists here shed some light on their reasons for doing so?

Personally, I don't give too much of a damn. Debating religious people can be a decent enough way to waste huge amounts of time and that's about it.

However, I view religion and particularly the Abrahamic monotheism as harmful, so it doesn't make me sad that there are people out there trying to minimize god's influence.

Said differently, what value are you trying to create (if that's, in fact, what you're doing) and by what standard could it be considered valuable?

What value do I try to promote?

All values I hold and consider important. Friendship, for instance. Respecting private matters and property. Openness. A few more.

They are valuable by my personal standards, the social contract and/or the standards of the society I live in.

[Attila]

A classic example of thoughtlessnees on the part of a theist is our new member John 3:16, if he had any consideration for the environment he was entering he would not have used that name. At the moment I'm considering him thoughtless, he may turn out to be a troll or a Poe,

Hi Tank (ok not CareBear),
What's a Poe? I don't know the term. POS, I've heard but not Poe (except for Edgar Allen: and the bells, bells, bells, bells, bells, bells, bells.)
TIA,
Attila

[Attila]

Hi Tankie,
Since we're on the subject of theists on an atheist forum, have there ever been women-theists? So far I've seen Bandit4God, Brucie-Wucie, and now Luke 19:27 (or was that John 23:23) and the late, unlamented CForceRunner but no women?  Have there been any in the past?
ciao,
Attila

[Tank]

Hi Tankie,
Since we're on the subject of theists on an atheist forum, have there ever been women-theists? So far I've seen Bandit4God, Brucie-Wucie, and now Luke 19:27 (or was that John 23:23) and the late, unlamented CForceRunner but no women?  Have there been any in the past?
ciao,
Attila

Female theists on atheist forums are pretty rare. Here there was Happy Forever, a Muslim, and at RDF I remember just the one Christian lady.