Evolution the myth

[Whitney]

Happy Forever...why do you hate science?  Seriously, you seem to have a big issue with anything science and until that is corrected there is no sense trying to reason with you.

[Happy Forever]

The question is clear, I am asking you to tell me how are you created.

Sperm meets egg, DNA meets DNA and nine months later the joy is bundled. That is how I was created.

Thank you  so much. By this and by using mind, there is no doubt that we are created by The Creator.

Humans in the civilized world at least avoid natural selection by ways of technology, but in a primitive society, if long legs gave me an advantage, it would make me more attractive for mating (Or a better hunter or a better fighter or any other slight advantage over the rest for improved survival) and my genes would be passed on to a larger extent than those of some bloke's with shorter legs, thus (eventually exponentially) increasing the long-leg to short-leg ratio within the area.

This is mythical, meaningless a fable cannot be accepted by any mind.

What natural selection and what attractive mating and hunter and improved survival?!!!!! ???

Where does your quotation about leg length come from?

The quote about leg length in your post highlighted in red, where did it come from?

From Mr Admodean, post 44.

Don't be nervous, we agreed to be patient. There are many hidden secrets.

[Happy Forever]

Two more points I would like to add:

If there wasn't the life and death cycle, there would be no change, and evolution is the result of the accumulated change over generations of the species or an isolated group, either geographically or genetically (at which point it can be said to be a different species). It's incorrect to say that individuals evolve. That's Lamarkian and has be proven to be false (at least for genetic inheritence, there's still some measure of Lamarckism in epigenetic inheritence, which both influences gene expression and is inheritable) Worth a read.

Again, science doesn't deal with the philosophical 'why' questions. No serious biologist is going to take a worldview based on evolution (why are we here, where are we going, etc.) That's bordering on scientism, and such a thing isn't really taken seriously in the first place.  

What are your thoughts on microevolution? And macroevolution?

I find no proof or definition to debate you here, you just say evolution is a theory.

May you defiine evolution to start debate as I know it has many definition and the definition I have is:

Development through billions of years by chance or natural selection.

Theory as in collection of facts, and it's a strong theory, with huge explanatory power. It's also very susceptible to falsifiability, which makes it interesting.

Mutations occur by chance, but selective pressures are not based on chance.
I think wikipedia defines what evolution is quite well:

Evolution (or more specifically biological or organic evolution) is the change over time in one or more inherited traits found in populations of individuals. Inherited traits are distinguishing characteristics, for example anatomical, biochemical or behavioural, that are passed on from one generation to the next. Evolution requires variation of inherited traits within a population. New variants of inherited traits can enter a population from outside populations, and this is referred to as gene flow.Alternatively, new variants can come into being from within a population in at least three ways: mutation of DNA, epimutation (a change inherited in some way other than through the sequence of nucleotides in DNA), and genetic recombination. Natural selection, where different inherited traits cause different rates of survival and reproduction, can cause new variants to become common in a population. Other evolutionary mechanisms can cause a variant to become common even if the variant does not directly cause improved survival or reproduction. These mechanisms include genetic hitchhiking, genetic drift, and recurrent biased mutation or migration.

The mechanism is simple. Variations occur and they are selected both because they provide an advantage and becuase they don't, but are linked in some way to the characteristic that does. Selected genes also "piggy-back" along with ones that are selected.

There are other mechanisms which describe how macroevolutionary change can come about, such as Evo-devo, or Evolution of Development.

Still, these processes are also subject to selective pressures, which are not random.

Thanks for your respectful reply.

This is a definition if adaptation, I want you to give me the other shameful definition; Development by time".

What do you mean by selective pressure?
Show me one pressure which is selective?

Selective pressure makes trees produce delicious fruits?
Selective pressures makes you a male or a female?
Selective pressure falls rain with sweat water?

Where is the chance in the creation of Allah??

[xSilverPhinx]

Evolutionary theory is a scientific issue. You need to debate it on it's own terms, otherwise this is all just a waste of time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

You bring in the question of souls and it gets messy, because souls and existential issues are not scientific. It's like trying to disprove a mathematical proof by using anecdotal stories/evidence because they feel right.  

If you can scientifically disprove this theory, then I am certain there will be a Nobel prize waiting for you.  

[Happy Forever]

Happy Forever...why do you hate science?  Seriously, you seem to have a big issue with anything science and until that is corrected there is no sense trying to reason with you.

On the contrary, science and nature are very strong evidence of The Creator.

"Verily Who are more afraid of Allah among His slaves are scientists" Quran

[BullyforBronto]

Evolutionary theory is a scientific issue. You need to debate it on it's own terms, otherwise this is all just a waste of time.
 

Exactly.

[Happy Forever]

Evolutionary theory is a scientific issue. You need to debate it on it's own terms, otherwise this is all just a waste of time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

You bring in the question of souls and it gets messy, because souls and existential issues are not scientific. It's like trying to disprove a mathematical proof by using anecdotal stories/evidence because they feel right.  

If you can scientifically disprove this theory, then I am certain there will be a Nobel prize waiting for you.  

Thank you. I want to show you that it is false, this is all what I want.

One simple logical proof, "nothing is made by itself".

[Tank]

Show me one pressure which is selective?

Variation in temperature is a selection pressure. Creatures that live in colder environments have thicker warmer fur than those than live in warmer environments. Some extremophile bacteria are quite capable of living in temperatures that would kill almost all other organisms.

[Whitney]

Happy Forever...why do you hate science?  Seriously, you seem to have a big issue with anything science and until that is corrected there is no sense trying to reason with you.

On the contrary, science and nature are very strong evidence of The Creator.

"Verily Who are more afraid of Allah among His slaves are scientists" Quran

First...stop preaching.  We don't think the quran is a holy text and you don't need to be quoting it at us for no good reason.  I've already let you slip on that rule quite a few times now.

2nd...if you don't hate science then why do you refuse to follow the scientific method when trying to understand science?  Science doesn't mean "I like this idea therefore it is true"

[Happy Forever]

Evolutionary theory is a scientific issue. You need to debate it on it's own terms, otherwise this is all just a waste of time.
 

Exactly.

Evolution has no relation with science.

When you say that you have eyes by natural selection is a myth. To say that you have ears by natural selection is a myth. To say you have legs by chance or randomness is a big myth.

Where is science here?!!!!

Nothing in science called chance or randomness or mythical selection.


Take care

[xSilverPhinx]

Thanks for your respectful reply.

This is a definition if adaptation, I want you to give me the other shameful definition; Development by time".

What do you mean? Macroevolution?

What do you mean by selective pressure?
Show me one pressure which is selective?

It's a description of some occurance that in turn influences what characterisitcs are selected either because they enhance fitness or because they're piggy-backing with one that does.

Natural selection is selective. Sexual selection is also selective. Ultimately the one that 'get's the last word', so to speak, is natural selection. If something isn't able to survive in an environment or compete with others for survival, it won't. It's that simple.

Selective pressure makes trees produce delicious fruits?

In this case selective pressures are the birds and insects which prefer fruits with more sugar. They also polinise. They leave the bitter ones alone, and in turn the seeds in those don't get past on to future generations.

Selective pressures makes you a male or a female?

Huh? ???

Sexual reproduction goes way back, even bacteria switch genes (even though they don't have genders and don't switch gamets, which doesn't make it sexual reproduction per se.

And there are advantages to switching genes.

Selective pressure falls rain with sweat water?

I really don't know where you're going with this.

Where is the chance in the creation of Allah??

Allah being a creator is a small chance among infinite possibilities...

[xSilverPhinx]

Evolutionary theory is a scientific issue. You need to debate it on it's own terms, otherwise this is all just a waste of time.

Exactly.

Evolution has no relation with science.

When you say that you have eyes by natural selection is a myth. To say that you have ears by natural selection is a myth. To say you have legs by chance or randomness is a big myth.

Where is science here?!!!!

Nothing in science called chance or randomness or mythical selection.


Take care

Talk about simply ignoring everything we've been saying till now...

Thank you. I want to show you that it is false, this is all what I want.

All you've been doing so far is basically say that since it all seems very improbable to you, then it can't be true. You're attacking strawmen arguments, and you aren't even discussing evolutionary theory based on what it is.

You should first read up a bit on it. 

[Happy Forever]

Happy Forever...why do you hate science?  Seriously, you seem to have a big issue with anything science and until that is corrected there is no sense trying to reason with you.

On the contrary, science and nature are very strong evidence of The Creator.

"Verily Who are more afraid of Allah among His slaves are scientists" Quran

First...stop preaching.  We don't think the quran is a holy text and you don't need to be quoting it at us for no good reason.  I've already let you slip on that rule quite a few times now.

2nd...if you don't hate science then why do you refuse to follow the scientific method when trying to understand science?  Science doesn't mean "I like this idea therefore it is true"

Mr Admin,
Being an admin doesn't mean to control me for no reason.

If you don't know the meaning of preaching go and search, no rule here prevents me from quoting The Munificent Quran and if you don't believe it, non of my business.

Read my post to which you have replied.

Science and nature are the evidence of Allah. Or you want to set a personal science??

Take care

[Tank]

Evolutionary theory is a scientific issue. You need to debate it on it's own terms, otherwise this is all just a waste of time.
 

Exactly.

Evolution has no relation with science.

When you say that you have eyes by natural selection is a myth. To say that you have ears by natural selection is a myth. To say you have legs by chance or randomness is a big myth.

Where is science here?!!!!

Nothing in science called chance or randomness or mythical selection.


Take care

Oh dear. It would appear that you haven't got a clue about evolution by natural selection. Simply declaring something a myth, doesn't make it so. Simply claiming that some supernatural power created us also doesn't make it so. And while there is a world full of hard evidence that points to evolution there is none whatsoever that points to the existence of the supernatural.

It looks like we are going to have to agree to differ.

[Whitney]

Happy Forever.. fair warning....if you continue to refuse to discuss this topic in a manner that is fitting of adult conversation you'll be banned for trolling.  If you simply are not able to understand the science then sorry but your posts are indistinguishable from a troll and HAF was not set up as a sounding board for sophomoric claims.