Evolution the myth

[Tank]

HF

We need to establish a 'base line' of understanding to progress the discussion. So I would like to know if you would agree that all organisms (excepting clones) are genetically unique? 

[Stevil]

Happy Forever is a troll. He/She is not interested in a discussion.
He/She is pissing his/her pants laughing at people trying to make some sense of the original post.

Tank you are a very patient person.

[Asmodean]

Tank you are a very patient person.

...And he has a shiney banhammer to prove it 

[xSilverPhinx]

Happy Forever, going by your posts it seems like you do not understand what ToE is, and until you understand why, this is going nowhere.

Do you, for instance, think that evolutionary theory says that birds can give birth to orangatangues?I don't mean to try to be funny here, but from my experience debating creationists, they really don't know what ToE.

Did you study evolution in school or did you just look at creationist material online? If you wish, I can recommend some quick YouTube videos which are not promoting atheism but solely about evolutionary theory and how selective pressures work into that picture.

You also seem to be confusing abiogenesis with biological evolution when evolutionary theory does not extend into abiogenesis (or in other words, how life came from non life).

You also call evolutionary theory a creation myth ??? It's no such thing. It's based on science.
Also, there are theistic evolutionists, they don't see it as incompatible. Science doesn't deal with the 'why we're here' questions. It's just a model of reality based on observations and the scientific method.

Also, your "logical" approach is flawed, especially if you're ignorant in the subject. You need to take the scientific approach, which is based on observed occurrences and not some reasoning that "seems to be right". When you take that kind of flawed approach, you leave yourself vulnerable to assuming that since you think that something couldn't have happened, therefore it didn't happen. Reality of course doesn't work that way.

Could you elaborate further on why you think evolutionary theory is false?

[Happy Forever]

Happy Forever, going by your posts it seems like you do not understand what ToE is, and until you understand why, this is going nowhere.

Do you, for instance, think that evolutionary theory says that birds can give birth to orangatangues?I don't mean to try to be funny here, but from my experience debating creationists, they really don't know what ToE.

Did you study evolution in school or did you just look at creationist material online? If you wish, I can recommend some quick YouTube videos which are not promoting atheism but solely about evolutionary theory and how selective pressures work into that picture.

You also seem to be confusing abiogenesis with biological evolution when evolutionary theory does not extend into abiogenesis (or in other words, how life came from non life).

You also call evolutionary theory a creation myth ??? It's no such thing. It's based on science.
Also, there are theistic evolutionists, they don't see it as incompatible. Science doesn't deal with the 'why we're here' questions. It's just a model of reality based on observations and the scientific method.

Also, your "logical" approach is flawed, especially if you're ignorant in the subject. You need to take the scientific approach, which is based on observed occurrences and not some reasoning that "seems to be right". When you take that kind of flawed approach, you leave yourself vulnerable to assuming that since you think that something couldn't have happened, therefore it didn't happen. Reality of course doesn't work that way.

Could you elaborate further on why you think evolutionary theory is false?

I find no proof or definition to debate you here, you just say evolution is a theory.

May you defiine evolution to start debate as I know it has many definition and the definition I have is:

Development through billions of years by chance or natural selection.

[Happy Forever]

Evolution refers to the biological adaptation of organisms...I'm sure there is a scientific word for it in Arabic (the language is still used, correct?).

Evolution does not relate to if a god exists or not nor does it relate to how the universe started.

Evolution is invented to deny The Creator.

I am talking about your own creation.

I think the burden of proof is on you at this point. Can you answer your own question with logical, scientific proof, just like you asked us to? Or, are you going to cite god?

No, the burden of showing your myth is over you.

Bricks and cement and sand and water combined togather and made a house without agreeing.

I tell you there must be a builder who built that house and you tell no, it is done by itself and it's me who should prove?!!

[Happy Forever]

Evolution refers to the biological adaptation of organisms...I'm sure there is a scientific word for it in Arabic (the language is still used, correct?).

Evolution does not relate to if a god exists or not nor does it relate to how the universe started.

Evolution is invented to deny The Creator.

I am talking about your own creation.

I have no clue what you are talking about "my own creation" but evolution was not developed as part of a conspiracy to end theistic religions.  I personally know a lot of Christians who accept evolution as true because they can't deny the science of it without knowingly ignoring reality; and it only conflicts with a very fundamental understanding of the bible so there really is no more conflict than some other things judeo-christians accept as real.  The creation story in the koran is similarly not in direct conflict with evolution....in fact, I've had more than one Muslim try to convince me that the koran describes evolution.

Btw, take not that one of our main rules at HAF is no preaching...that means we all expect people to back up what they say with facts and reason rather than just making statements.

Who mentioned religion?

I ask you a simple question:

You are created or evolved?

What is creation and what is evolution?

Waiting for a logical answer.

[Happy Forever]

The question is clear, I am asking you to tell me how are you created.

Sperm meets egg, DNA meets DNA and nine months later the joy is bundled. That is how I was created.

Thank you  so much. By this and by using mind, there is no doubt that we are created by The Creator.

Humans in the civilized world at least avoid natural selection by ways of technology, but in a primitive society, if long legs gave me an advantage, it would make me more attractive for mating (Or a better hunter or a better fighter or any other slight advantage over the rest for improved survival) and my genes would be passed on to a larger extent than those of some bloke's with shorter legs, thus (eventually exponentially) increasing the long-leg to short-leg ratio within the area.

This is mythical, meaningless a fable cannot be accepted by any mind.

What natural selection and what attractive mating and hunter and improved survival?!!!!! ???

[Happy Forever]

HF

We need to establish a 'base line' of understanding to progress the discussion. So I would like to know if you would agree that all organisms (excepting clones) are genetically unique? 

Everything in this life is unique, we are not products of a factory, we are the great creation of Allah The One.

Nothing is a copy of another thing. Every hair drop of rain is unique, every cloud tiny or big is unique will never be repeated in its shape or its path or its size or its time.  Every sand is unique in its shape and its size and its place and time. Every hair of you is unique not similar to any of your hair or others' hair, it is unique in its color or its shape or its size or its place or its time.....

Allah is The Great Creator.

Subhan Allah.

[Tank]

The question is clear, I am asking you to tell me how are you created.

Sperm meets egg, DNA meets DNA and nine months later the joy is bundled. That is how I was created.

Thank you  so much. By this and by using mind, there is no doubt that we are created by The Creator.

Humans in the civilized world at least avoid natural selection by ways of technology, but in a primitive society, if long legs gave me an advantage, it would make me more attractive for mating (Or a better hunter or a better fighter or any other slight advantage over the rest for improved survival) and my genes would be passed on to a larger extent than those of some bloke's with shorter legs, thus (eventually exponentially) increasing the long-leg to short-leg ratio within the area.

This is mythical, meaningless a fable cannot be accepted by any mind.

What natural selection and what attractive mating and hunter and improved survival?!!!!! ???

Where does your quotation about leg length come from?

[Tank]

HF

We need to establish a 'base line' of understanding to progress the discussion. So I would like to know if you would agree that all organisms (excepting clones) are genetically unique? 

Everything in this life is unique, we are not products of a factory, we are the great creation of Allah The One.

Nothing is a copy of another thing. Every hair drop of rain is unique, every cloud tiny or big is unique will never be repeated in its shape or its path or its size or its time.  Every sand is unique in its shape and its size and its place and time. Every hair of you is unique not similar to any of your hair or others' hair, it is unique in its color or its shape or its size or its place or its time.....

Allah is The Great Creator.

Subhan Allah.

That's not what I asked. Please answer the question I asked or I think my paitience with you will start to run out.

We need to establish a 'base line' of understanding to progress the discussion. So I would like to know if you would agree that all organisms (excepting clones) are genetically unique? 

[xSilverPhinx]

Two more points I would like to add:

If there wasn't the life and death cycle, there would be no change, and evolution is the result of the accumulated change over generations of the species or an isolated group, either geographically or genetically (at which point it can be said to be a different species). It's incorrect to say that individuals evolve. That's Lamarkian and has be proven to be false (at least for genetic inheritence, there's still some measure of Lamarckism in epigenetic inheritence, which both influences gene expression and is inheritable) Worth a read.

Again, science doesn't deal with the philosophical 'why' questions. No serious biologist is going to take a worldview based on evolution (why are we here, where are we going, etc.) That's bordering on scientism, and such a thing isn't really taken seriously in the first place.  

What are your thoughts on microevolution? And macroevolution?

I find no proof or definition to debate you here, you just say evolution is a theory.

May you defiine evolution to start debate as I know it has many definition and the definition I have is:

Development through billions of years by chance or natural selection.

Theory as in collection of facts, and it's a strong theory, with huge explanatory power. It's also very susceptible to falsifiability, which makes it interesting.

Mutations occur by chance, but selective pressures are not based on chance.

I think wikipedia defines what evolution is quite well:

Evolution (or more specifically biological or organic evolution) is the change over time in one or more inherited traits found in populations of individuals. Inherited traits are distinguishing characteristics, for example anatomical, biochemical or behavioural, that are passed on from one generation to the next. Evolution requires variation of inherited traits within a population. New variants of inherited traits can enter a population from outside populations, and this is referred to as gene flow.Alternatively, new variants can come into being from within a population in at least three ways: mutation of DNA, epimutation (a change inherited in some way other than through the sequence of nucleotides in DNA), and genetic recombination. Natural selection, where different inherited traits cause different rates of survival and reproduction, can cause new variants to become common in a population. Other evolutionary mechanisms can cause a variant to become common even if the variant does not directly cause improved survival or reproduction. These mechanisms include genetic hitchhiking, genetic drift, and recurrent biased mutation or migration.

The mechanism is simple. Variations occur and they are selected both because they provide an advantage and becuase they don't, but are linked in some way to the characteristic that does. Selected genes which don't increase or decrease fitness also "piggy-back" along with ones that are selected because they increase fitness (edited to add).

There are other mechanisms which describe how macroevolutionary change can come about, such as Evo-devo, or Evolution of Development.

Still, these processes are also subject to selective pressures, which are not random.

[Happy Forever]

Where does your quotation about leg length come from?

What leg length?!

[Tank]

The question is clear, I am asking you to tell me how are you created.

Sperm meets egg, DNA meets DNA and nine months later the joy is bundled. That is how I was created.

Thank you  so much. By this and by using mind, there is no doubt that we are created by The Creator.

Humans in the civilized world at least avoid natural selection by ways of technology, but in a primitive society, if long legs gave me an advantage, it would make me more attractive for mating (Or a better hunter or a better fighter or any other slight advantage over the rest for improved survival) and my genes would be passed on to a larger extent than those of some bloke's with shorter legs, thus (eventually exponentially) increasing the long-leg to short-leg ratio within the area.

This is mythical, meaningless a fable cannot be accepted by any mind.

What natural selection and what attractive mating and hunter and improved survival?!!!!! ???

Where does your quotation about leg length come from?

The quote about leg length in your post highlighted in red, where did it come from?

[Happy Forever]

HF

We need to establish a 'base line' of understanding to progress the discussion. So I would like to know if you would agree that all organisms (excepting clones) are genetically unique? 

Everything in this life is unique, we are not products of a factory, we are the great creation of Allah The One.

Nothing is a copy of another thing. Every hair drop of rain is unique, every cloud tiny or big is unique will never be repeated in its shape or its path or its size or its time.  Every sand is unique in its shape and its size and its place and time. Every hair of you is unique not similar to any of your hair or others' hair, it is unique in its color or its shape or its size or its place or its time.....

Allah is The Great Creator.

Subhan Allah.

That's not what I asked. Please answer the question I asked or I think my paitience with you will start to run out.

We need to establish a 'base line' of understanding to progress the discussion. So I would like to know if you would agree that all organisms (excepting clones) are genetically unique? 

I don't believe in this false word "organism". I answered every soul is unique, everythins is unique in itself.

I ask you to start discussion to define the concept of evolution. Or you discovered the fallacy of its name and its definition??