My view of Physics and God

[SuperiorEd]

EDIT: This thread comprises two mearged threads. One which the user started in Introductions (starts with this post) and one he started in Religion. -Tank

Hello.  This is post #1.  My life is one of belief in the Trinity of God and all that this implies.  My main goal in life has been an attempt to confirm or refute this belief.  My journey in life has been an attempt to allow my belief to be beaten down, challenged in dark allies and trampled by anyone willing to debate.  As a result, the pendulum of my mind swings from doubt to faith.  I intentionally upset the equilibrium to produce wisdom from the experience.  Since this is a dark alley I have never walked, allow me to present a challenge:

I would like to match my understanding of God, the universe and truth against the opposite swing of the pendulum as an exercise in growth.  If you are up for the challenge, here is the request.  Convince me why I am in error as a believer in God.  

As a rule:  Speak to the subject and do not step on the object.  I will follow this rule when speaking of God as well.  I will not speak toward any perceived bias against or for God's character.  If possible, this should be about evidence and not bashing of character.  

I will start with my basic understanding of God and physics.

Einstein said that the universe starts with Time, Space, Matter and Energy.

Moses said, "In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy)."

Right now, I am in an image called The Happy Atheist Forum.  Although I am a physical person, my image here is represented purely by my Word.  You know I exist simply because you are familiar with how the process of a forum works.  You may doubt that I am writing my own words or that the image I project is true, but you do know I exist.  You may never meet me face to face, yet you take it for granted that I am a human and have typed these words sometime in the past.

Moses said, "So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them."

From my ability to reason, I realize that the universe is an artificial reality and we are artificial lifeforms to God's perspective.  To our perspective, this reality is real.  As the Bible suggests, we are inside His created image on the other side of His reality.  We are also made in His likeness.  Today is the only age in history when man possesses a metaphor for this type of Created reality.  Consider the screen that you are using to read these words.  It is an image.  I am in this image represented by something physical, with words that tell a story, and consciousness connecting me to you.  

How is this image projected?

As I stated at the top, the Trinity of God is where it starts for me.  Most believer's see God as three persons.  The Father is most often referenced toward light.  The Son is referenced as the Son of God and the Word (John 1).  John 1 states that the Word was the Son who spoke the image into existence.  The final person of the trinity is the Holy Spirit.  Here is how I see these three figures in relation to the image of reality and the physics of creation.  

Light is a misunderstood duality of particle and wave.  Since this understanding is a theory, it is the best clue I have to go on when considering how time, space, matter and light (energy at high frequency) operate.  Since all particles have an associated wave, then the wave (force) that binds particles into matter is the main force that is governed by the laws of physics.  Since I can clearly see that the laws of physics are governed, I must assume a governor.  How can this relate to an image that is projected into an artificial reality you ask?

God is one.  We realize Him from the three aspects of His claim to creation.  We see him as particle and wave making up all matter.  We also see him as consciousness and aware.  He refers to Himself as the Great I AM.  I can then extrapolate the meaning behind this to see myself.  I am one person.  I have consciousness and I am made up of animated particle and wave.  How do we explain the projection point from God to us?  Why is God hidden apart from His manifestation in material reality?  Why does He refuse to be represented by matter?

As stated by Paul Dirac's relativistic quantum mechanical wave equation, our universe is parallel to another universe in opposite.  Our matter is anti-matter to this mirrored universe.  The event horizon between these two universes represents the projection point of both.

End of Post 1

[Whitney]

Welcome to HAF.

I think the better question is can you make it to 10 posts without breaking forum rules   The answer to your question is no because you aren't allowed to post in the religious section till after 10 posts and that means not discussing religion.

[KingPhilip]

Plus the fact that becoming an Atheist is a personal journey that often takes years. If you were deconverted within ten posts, I'd say your faith wasn't that secure long before you found us.

[Siz]

Hello Superior - nicely disarming name!

I have no desire to unpick this abortion of opinion, conjecture and unfounded conclusions, but welcome anyway...

[SuperiorEd]

Welcome to HAF.

I think the better question is can you make it to 10 posts without breaking forum rules   The answer to your question is no because you aren't allowed to post in the religious section till after 10 posts and that means not discussing religion.

Duly noted and I will keep it quite.  POST 7

[SuperiorEd]

Plus the fact that becoming an Atheist is a personal journey that often takes years. If you were deconverted within ten posts, I'd say your faith wasn't that secure long before you found us.

Sure.  I have searched both sides for years already.  This doesn't mean the subject of reason cannot speak louder than the subject of belief.  I am always open. POST 8

[SuperiorEd]

Hello Superior - nicely disarming name!

I have no desire to unpick this abortion of opinion, conjecture and unfounded conclusions, but welcome anyway...

How so?  Care to provide context to your use of language concerning the taking of human life?  How does the world abortion imply an unfounded conclusion.  I fail to draw the relationship.    Is the comment aimed at me the object, or the subject of what I said?  POST 9

[xSilverPhinx]

Welcome!

Well, you make it a tough challenge, because it seems to me like you would like something else to replace your conception of god, and quickly. That's just not the way it happens, unless you come across some strong evidence. Since I can't provide you with evidence that god does not exist, my guess is that any attempt to deconvert you was a fail from the start.

Especially since

As a rule:  Speak to the subject and do not step on the object.  I will follow this rule when speaking of God as well.  I will not speak toward any perceived bias against or for God's character.  If possible, this should be about evidence and not bashing of character.

You're wanting people to tackle the idea of a simplified version of a semi-deistic god creating the universe?

[Whitney]

Definition of ABORTION
1
: the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus: as a : spontaneous expulsion of a human fetus during the first 12 weeks of gestation — compare miscarriage b : induced expulsion of a human fetus c : expulsion of a fetus by a domestic animal often due to infection at any time before completion of pregnancy — compare contagious abortion

2
: monstrosity
3
: arrest of development (as of a part or process) resulting in imperfection; also : a result of such arrest

Just because a word has one meaning doesn't mean that a person was using it...in the context it was likely definition 2.  http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abortion

[SuperiorEd]

Now that I have reached 10 posts, this is a recap of my first post in the into section.  I assume this is a safe place to discuss the topic.

My life is one of belief in the Trinity of God and all that this implies.  My main goal in life has been an attempt to confirm or refute this belief.  My journey in life has been an attempt to allow my belief to be beaten down, challenged in dark allies and trampled by anyone willing to debate.  As a result, the pendulum of my mind swings from doubt to faith.  I intentionally upset the equilibrium to produce wisdom from the experience.  Since this is a dark alley I have never walked, allow me to present a challenge:

I would like to match my understanding of God, the universe and truth against the opposite swing of the pendulum as an exercise in growth.  If you are up for the challenge, here is the request.  Convince me why I am in error as a believer in God. 

As a rule:  Speak to the subject and do not step on the object.  I will follow this rule when speaking of God as well.  I will not speak toward any perceived bias against or for God's character here.  I am after an inquiry into the subject of belief form the standpoint of evidence.  If possible, this should be about evidence and not bashing of character (even God's).  A subject should be able to stand from evidence and not a bias against the individuals involved. 

I will start with my basic understanding of God and physics.

Einstein said that the universe starts with Time, Space, Matter and Energy.

Moses said, "In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy)."

Right now, I am in an image called The Happy Atheist Forum.  Although I am a physical person, my image here is represented purely by my Word.  You know I exist simply because you are familiar with how the process of a forum works.  You may doubt that I am writing my own words or that the image I project is true, but you do know I exist.  You may never meet me face to face, yet you take it for granted that I am a human and have typed these words sometime in the past.

Moses said, "So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them."

From my ability to reason, I realize that the universe is an artificial reality and we are artificial lifeforms to God's perspective.  To our perspective, this reality is real.  As the Bible suggests, we are inside His created image on the other side of His reality.  We are also made in His likeness.  Today is the only age in history when man possesses a metaphor for this type of Created reality.  Consider the screen that you are using to read these words.  It is an image.  I am in this image represented by something physical, with words that tell a story, and consciousness connecting me to you. 

How is this image projected?

As I stated at the top, the Trinity of God is where it starts for me.  Most believer's see God as three persons.  The Father is most often referenced toward light.  The Son is referenced as the Son of God and the Word (John 1).  John 1 states that the Word was the Son who spoke the image into existence.  The final person of the trinity is the Holy Spirit.  Here is how I see these three figures in relation to the image of reality and the physics of creation. 

Light is a misunderstood duality of particle and wave.  Since this understanding is a theory, it is the best clue I have to go on when considering how time, space, matter and light (energy at high frequency) operate.  Since all particles have an associated wave, then the wave (force) that binds particles into matter is the main force that is governed by the laws of physics.  Since I can clearly see that the laws of physics are governed, I must assume a governor.  How can this relate to an image that is projected into an artificial reality you ask?

God is one.  We realize Him from the three aspects of His claim to creation.  We see him as particle and wave making up all matter.  We also see him as consciousness and aware.  He refers to Himself as the Great I AM.  I can then extrapolate the meaning behind this to see myself.  I am one person.  I have consciousness and I am made up of animated particle and wave.  How do we explain the projection point from God to us?  Why is God hidden apart from His manifestation in material reality?  Why does He refuse to be represented by matter?

As stated by Paul Dirac's relativistic quantum mechanical wave equation, our universe is parallel to another universe in opposite.  Our matter is anti-matter to this mirrored universe.  The event horizon between these two universes represents the projection point of both.

End of Post 1

[Whitney]

From my ability to reason, I realize that the universe is an artificial reality and we are artificial lifeforms to God's perspective. 

Could you explain how your came to the idea that reality is an illusion through reason alone?

[xSilverPhinx]

Just to add:

When people (or I at least) attack god's character, it's not because of bias, it's because we don't have much to go on until people describe or define what they mean by 'god'.

Most Christians refer to the bible and what their holy book tells them their god's character is. By attacking that, it's to show that such a being cannot exist. Disproving the god of the bible does not by default disprove any and all possibilities of gods known and unknown till now. That's why, if your version of god is simplified and based on the laws of known and experienced reality, nobody is going to shift your interpretational paradigm in a few minutes...

By what you've written, looks like you're making parallels between the laws of physics and your conception of 'the governer' (which is IMO a flawed leap of logic). I don't know enough about your beliefs to say, but I can't disprove to you that those laws don't exist.  

What are your beliefs exactly? Especially the bible...

[SuperiorEd]

I don't believe I called it an illusion.  But since you suggest this, many prominent scientists have suggested this very thing.  We are made of energy.  Our computer realities follow this same format.  Why should I deny the possibility when I have a valid example that compares in every way?  DNA is a language.  It appears to be programmed.  It uses logic that programmers use, only far superior.  Quantum physics suggests that consciousness collapses the indeterminate wave of probability when choice is made.  This changes matter.  Since consciousness changes matter, I must assume that consciousness is responsible in some way for the form matter takes presently.  Why should I doubt design when it is evident?  Entropy in information theory states clearly that a bit of information degrades over time.  DNA improves over time.  It goes against entropy in information.  An acorn has an enfolded oak tree inside it.  I know this to be true because science provides evidence that the acorn expresses from information and transmutes the matter around it.  A tree is living like me.  Parallels can be drawn from this to how we construct trees in a fractal environment of computer generated reality.  Yet another example.

To us, it is not an illusion.  Does this mean it is not an illusion to the designer.  Genesis 1:27 seems to say it is an image of what it represents.  

Hebrews 11:1

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

Quantum weirdness is not visible, yet is makes the universe and you and me.  It might be an illusion if we consider that we do not see where it comes from, yet we know and can verify it is there, whatever it is.

From my ability to reason, I realize that the universe is an artificial reality and we are artificial lifeforms to God's perspective.  

Could you explain how your came to the idea that reality is an illusion through reason alone?

[Whitney]

I don't follow your proof....could you explain what logical steps you took to know that reality is an illusion (and if you didn't mean illusion then could you re-explain what you think the universe is?)?  If you could list your steps philosophically as premise proof etc that would help us all get where you are coming from.

[SuperiorEd]

To answer this, I need to describe how I see myself.  I am a child of God.  A child of God is a term used in the Bible to describe what a believer is.  I assume that my concept of God cannot see Him for what He is, therefore I am a child seeing the world from the perspective of true oblivious sentience.  If God is what He claims, then He is infinity at rest.  There is your description of God.  From this point, I see His character as a child.  Sometimes I get angry at Him and sometimes I marvel at the wonder of it all.  This is what a child (early sentient life) does.  

Most atheists will will make their conclusions based on a childish understanding form what they have observed.  Believers are the same, but emotional intelligence plays a large role in this.  Believers are as weak as atheists in this ability to conceive infinity at rest or in deciphering emotion.  How can we perceive all when we only see 'now'.  If God is infinity at rest, then reality is merely the movement of one set of thoughts in an image that we move through.  My ability to conceive in no way demands that this is not possible.  

Most atheists will make their conclusions, as I said, based on this type of awareness.  Suffering is normally the trigger that leads a person to this conclusion.  Suffering is the point for me.  When a person takes form life, they are stealing a reward that ends in suffering.  Smoke and you get cancer.  When a person gives to life, reward follows.  Suffer an education and you get reward.  There are no exceptions to this.  If you find one, then the cause will reflect the actions of others.  In my view, God is one of the others.  Chance is providence.  We are all affected in life by our actions or the actions of others.  Chance is only the laws of nature accounting for unequal actions.  Suffering is explained in this and God can be seen as helping us manage to learn.

Just to add:

When people (or I at least) attack god's character, it's not because of bias, it's because we don't have much to go on until people describe or define what they mean by 'god'.

Most Christians refer to the bible and what their holy book tells them their god's character is. By attacking that, it's to show that such a being cannot exist. Disproving the god of the bible does not by default disprove any and all possibilities of gods known and unknown till now. That's why, if your version of god is simplified and based on the laws of known and experienced reality, nobody is going to shift your interpretational paradigm in a few minutes...

By what you've written, looks like you're making parallels between the laws of physics and your conception of 'the governer' (which is IMO a flawed leap of logic). I don't know enough about your beliefs to say, but I can't disprove to you that those laws don't exist.  

What are your beliefs exactly? Especially the bible...