Anyone ever seen real magic?

[Siz]

Hi all,

I wanted to find out your thoughts on the existence of magic. I shall start by defining the subject:

Wikipedia says "Magic is the claimed art of manipulating aspects of reality either by supernatural means or through knowledge of occult laws unknown to science". Let's go with that.

So, has anyone ACTUALLY experienced what they can only describe as supernatural magic? I'm not interested in what your mate saw, or what your mum said. I want first-hand accounts.

Mind reading
Divination
Miracles
Telekinesis
Healing
Prediction
Ghosts / spirits
divine revelations

Is there a 'force' that we can manipulate?
Are we all connected supernaturally?
Does the sock-fairy actually exist?

I think it's all baloney, deception, praying on the weak-minded, overactive imaginations, mind tricks... and outright lying. Tell me I'm wrong...

Assuming there is no God, does this preclude the supernatural?

[The Magic Pudding]

The business of passing from one dimension or spiritual plane to another when you die is nonsense, it's totally ridiculous, I mean how could you?

We are actually pan dimensional beings, most of us are only aware of the fleshy dimension until their flesh dries up.  There are a few practical implications of this, I'd advise against playing cards with someone in touch with their non fleshy dimension self.

[xSilverPhinx]

As far as I know, usually people claiming that magic exists are the ones least qualified to know magic if they saw it.  

I mean, look at the porportion between the experts in a subject who beleive in magic contained within their subject of expertise and those who don't know anything or close to nothing about that same subject claiming that something is magical or supernatural.

[fester30]

There is some sufficiently advanced technology that i have seen that appears completely indistinguishable from magic.  For example... Twinkies.  They cannot be destroyed... there is no argument that claims they are healthy... yet... I get the incredible unexplainable feeling that they will make me stronger than iron, able to dunk a basketball, smarter than Rick Perry, and certainly will fix my speeling problems.

[Sandra Craft]

I think it's all baloney, deception, praying on the weak-minded, overactive imaginations, mind tricks... and outright lying. Tell me I'm wrong...

Or just some really weird co-incidence, or very freaky shit for which we don't have an explanation right now?

I've seen things that answer the classic description of ghosts twice in my life -- and it would take a great deal more than that to convince me that ghosts actually exist just because the concept is so silly.  Also, my eyesight isn't that great and even tho I saw the first "ghost" before I started wearing glasses, who's to say some visual defeat wasn't already at work?  As well as an over-active imagination?

And once, when I was 7, I had a dream about my brother (who'd recently left our mother's place to go live with our Dad) and found out, years later, that at about the same time he'd had the exact same dream, only from his point of view.  I still need more than that to believe in mind-reading, or the mystic union of souls, etc., but that does qualify with me as freaky shit I don't have an explanation for.

[Siz]

The business of passing from one dimension or spiritual plane to another when you die is nonsense, it's totally ridiculous, I mean how could you?

We are actually pan dimensional beings, most of us are only aware of the fleshy dimension until their flesh dries up.  There are a few practical implications of this, I'd advise against playing cards with someone in touch with their non fleshy dimension self.

Is that to say there's an explanation for the existence for magic as we know it without resort to supernature? Interesting thought.

Taking this to its natural conclusion we might consider that harnessing access to the non-fleshy dimension may actually be what people have been doing for millennia and calling it magic. In essence this other dimension IS the supernatural. Ok, neat enough theory. But I still have no evidence that this manipulation has ever happened.

Your conjecture still requires a leap of faith. Are you a dimensional believer then? Or weakly agnostic? What does the balance of probability have to offer this argument?

[Asmodean]

Mind reading

Yes, I've experienced that. However, the mind reader was a skilled illusionist using very earthly and natural tricks to do his thing...

Divination

Nope.

Miracles

In a manner. I have witnessed a medical "miracle", but that was no more supernatural than witnessing somebody win the lottery.

Telekinesis

Nope.

Healing

None that worked once the endorphines wore off.

Prediction

None that was accurate enough to be interesting. Except maybe the weather... Uncanny, how they do that. "Is gonna rain", they say, and it does  ???

Ghosts / spiritsey

No.

divine revelations

No.

Is there a 'force' that we can manipulate?

Sure. Although those manipulated by chanting and other voodoo sort of originate in the creative part of the performer's brain.

Are we all connected supernaturally?

Until they prove a subspace link between humans, no. (And when they do, it will still be no, as subspace will have to be proven to be a part of nature first)

Does the sock-fairy actually exist?

Yes. How can you even doubt that, you... doubter?!  

Tell me I'm wrong...

Sorry... Gotta dosappoint you on that one  

Assuming there is no God, does this preclude the supernatural?

No. But lack of a belief in one usually leads to lack of a belief in the other.

[The Magic Pudding]

Is that to say there's an explanation for the existence for magic as we know it without resort to supernature? Interesting thought.

Taking this to its natural conclusion we might consider that harnessing access to the non-fleshy dimension may actually be what people have been doing for millennia and calling it magic. In essence this other dimension IS the supernatural. Ok, neat enough theory. But I still have no evidence that this manipulation has ever happened.

Your conjecture still requires a leap of faith. Are you a dimensional believer then? Or weakly agnostic? What does the balance of probability have to offer this argument?

Sorry I can't enlighten you, I sense a sceptical fleshy, too much interaction with your type weakens my link with my non fleshy manifestation.  It's very annoying when that happens, last time I had to find the TV remote to change channels.

[xSilverPhinx]

Come to think of it, I loose my socks all the time, there must only be one explanation for that occurance. The sock fairy. 

I really can't think of any other alternate and more likely explanation, so...it just must be. There's just no other way.

[Asmodean]

Come to think of it, I loose my socks all the time, there must only be one explanation for that occurance. The sock fairy. 

I really can't think of any other alternate and more likely explanation, so...it just must be. There's just no other way.

Yup. One lives in my washing machine. Always takes one sock out of a pair. 

[Crow]

No I have never seen any real magic. I once thought I saw a ghost for about 30 seconds until I realised it was my own reflection and had been awake for over 48 hrs. I have tried hallucinogenic drugs before when I was back in uni and from that experience the brain is capable of producing insane imagery that is very believable. I can understand why some people may believe that they have witnessed something like a ghost/spirit, however I think they are most likely illusions of the brain.

I don't think we are connected spiritually to each other but mirror neurons offer a reasonable explanation for this.

Dan Brown does a very good job of showing the skills and tricks behind most of these so called magic. I would like him to do a program on Qigong.

[Will]

The natural is. The supernatural isn't. If magic can be described naturally, with science, then it exists. If, however, it's not natural, it doesn't exist. I guess it depends on one's definition of magic.

[Sweetdeath]

I like magic tricks and illusions, but erm.. What do you mean?  Like voodoo or witchcraft?  I don't think that exists.

[fyv0h]

I ate a whole box of Cinnamon Toast Crunch in one sitting one time...it was pretty magical...

[Tank]

I ate a whole box of Cinnamon Toast Crunch in one sitting one time...it was pretty magical...

Cinnamon Fail (NSFW swearing on sound track) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdFnjE8e-bc