What Atheists think about Homosexuality?

[Stevil]

Part of the Catholic church's issue is that protected sex can lead to unwanted pregnancy (because it isn't 100% effective), which can lead to abortion (which they term as murder).
They think masturbation can build up a person's desire for sex which they deem as a precursor for unwanted pregnancy.

But I don't understand the issue they have with gay sex. Probably because of some passage in their scripture, so they deem it as dis-ordered and unnatural.

[philosoraptor]

But I don't understand the issue they have with gay sex. Probably because of some passage in their scripture, so they deem it as dis-ordered and unnatural.

"'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

From Leviticus 20:13.  So yeah, scripture...as always.  Can't recall the last time I saw a Catholic stoning someone for wearing mixed fiber clothing or working on a Sunday, though.  How convenient, to be able to pick and choose the parts of your religion you want to comply with. 

[Amicale]

But I don't understand the issue they have with gay sex. Probably because of some passage in their scripture, so they deem it as dis-ordered and unnatural.

"'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

From Leviticus 20:13.  So yeah, scripture...as always.  Can't recall the last time I saw a Catholic stoning someone for wearing mixed fiber clothing or working on a Sunday, though.  How convenient, to be able to pick and choose the parts of your religion you want to comply with. 

In all fairness, I can't recall the last time I saw a Catholic stoning someone for being gay, either. Discriminating against us, objecting to us, wanting rights ignored, sure. But most Catholics have at least dropped the stones.  (as though that's something to be proud of when everything else stands.)

[philosoraptor]

Matthew Shepard ring any bells?  I don't know if the fuckers who killed him were Catholic or not, but there certainly have been incidences of violence against homosexuals fueled by that same piece of scripture.  I guess that's my point.  No one stands outside of shopping malls, screaming slurs at people wearing polyester.  No one stands outside of the 24 hour grocery store on a Sunday morning, telling the people going in to work that they are sinning.  But people do stand on street corners with signs that say shit like "God hates fags", and all these bullshit prescriptions come from the same book of the Bible, some of them within a few sentences of each other.

[Amicale]

Matthew Shepard ring any bells?  I don't know if the fuckers who killed him were Catholic or not, but there certainly have been incidences of violence against homosexuals fueled by that same piece of scripture.  I guess that's my point.  No one stands outside of shopping malls, screaming slurs at people wearing polyester.  No one stands outside of the 24 hour grocery store on a Sunday morning, telling the people going in to work that they are sinning.  But people do stand on street corners with signs that say shit like "God hates fags", and all these bullshit prescriptions come from the same book of the Bible, some of them within a few sentences of each other.

Yes, absolutely. And it's insane that people would be hypocritical, and even moreso that they'd be hateful. Being gay attracts a level of hate and disgust from some religious people that isn't paralleled by anything. It's horrible. Matthew Shepard more than rings bells for me. I was in 9th grade when he was killed, and I'd just told some of my friends very quietly that I was gay. I was amazed what what insanity befell him. It was brutal, hearing what happened to him.

[philosoraptor]

I suppose we should be thankful that people are so inconsistently hateful like that, but for the life of me I'll never understand why people choose that one particular verse to harp on.  Why not fix on love thy neighbor, or treat others the way you want to be treated?  Why does hate seem to come to some of us more naturally than love or acceptance?

[Amicale]

I suppose we should be thankful that people are so inconsistently hateful like that, but for the life of me I'll never understand why people choose that one particular verse to harp on.  Why not fix on love thy neighbor, or treat others the way you want to be treated?  Why does hate seem to come to some of us more naturally than love or acceptance?

Honestly, I believe that at the core of hate, fear exists. Fear of the unknown, mostly. Fear of change. Fear of being wrong. Fear of loss of control. Fear of an 'out group' somehow infiltrating their 'in group', when really we're all just humans in the same group. It's sad. Hate is just fear amped up to extraordinarily high levels. They don't call it homo 'phobia' for nothing, that's for sure.

I agree with you, though. Why NOT focus on our similarities, focus on treating one another well, as we'd like to be treated? Is it because these people think that if they did that, they'd 'lose' something? Well, they would. They'd lose some of their ignorance, for one thing. They'd lose their judgemental attitude if they befriended and loved others, NOT to convert them, but to genuinely care for them. They'd see that there's not much difference between them and the people they used to be afraid of.

How do I know? I know because I used to be one of them. I was ignorant and had a lot of internalized homophobia. I was Christian when I was younger, and I had honestly been taught to prettymuch avoid people who aren't like me, taught that gays and lesbians might be OK people, but they were hellbound sinners who'd drag me with them. I was taught that they were weird, or crazy, that atheists and skeptics were to be avoided. The first time I ever went on a date with a girl, I was 16. I was terrified of what I was doing, terrified of who would see us, terrified of why I even was the way I was. I didn't want to feel that confused. I didn't want to think all these people who weren't like me were evil. I didn't REALLY believe they were, they were just strangers to me because I'd never been able to get to know them before.

I'm so, so damned glad I was able to break out of that mindset, and get to know people for who they really are. I'm glad my views have changed. I've said before, and I'll say it again, that I'm a very different person at 26 than I was at 16. I'm glad my mind's more open. I'm glad I've met people from all sorts of cultures, beliefs, orientations, and political views. It's a wonderful feeling, being able to change your mind and your heart, and then DOING IT.

[Traveler]

"'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

So, if this is the biblical reference, what's their problem with lesbians?

[The Magic Pudding]

Societies attitude causes gays young and old to suicide.
Sometimes parents from conservative country communities ask why the rate of suicide is so high in their communities. 


I saw a documentary (a real one, on proper TV) about Ottoman sultans.  There was the killing of all your siblings on gaining power which seemed a reasonable thing.  You get a harem with hundreds of wives and they are kept in isolation, they can peek through a grill and watch the goings on of the court if bored.  Eunuchs to guard your wives seems sensible too, who else could you trust?   The thing I don't get was some old woman was put in with the wives at night to stop the Sappho stuff....Why?  I don't get it why would he ban that?  He could have his own grill to keep an eye on what was going on, and don't be to quick in saying I'm being a perverted Pudding, THIS WAS PRE TV!

[Ivan Tudor C McHock]

I suppose we should be thankful that people are so inconsistently hateful like that, but for the life of me I'll never understand why people choose that one particular verse to harp on. 

Never? It's really not complicated. It's about money.

[Recusant]

"'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

So, if this is the biblical reference, what's their problem with lesbians?

There are many Biblical passages which condemn homosexuality directly or by inference (sometimes referring to "sodomites" or "the sin of Sodom") but as far as I know there's only one which directly addresses lesbianism. It's from that old sweetheart Paul, in Romans 1:26, and comes in a diatribe "against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness."

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Paul was a real master--here he manages to condemn homosexuality while including a nice dose of sexism on the side: The natural use of women is to satisfy the lusts of men.

[Sweetdeath]

But I don't understand the issue they have with gay sex. Probably because of some passage in their scripture, so they deem it as dis-ordered and unnatural.

"'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

From Leviticus 20:13.  So yeah, scripture...as always.  Can't recall the last time I saw a Catholic stoning someone for wearing mixed fiber clothing or working on a Sunday, though.  How convenient, to be able to pick and choose the parts of your religion you want to comply with. 

In all fairness, I can't recall the last time I saw a Catholic stoning someone for being gay, either. Discriminating against us, objecting to us, wanting rights ignored, sure. But most Catholics have at least dropped the stones.  (as though that's something to be proud of when everything else stands.)

Uh... People still get stoned in the middle east.
People are still beaten or killed for beimg gay all over the world, so..... 

[Amicale]

But I don't understand the issue they have with gay sex. Probably because of some passage in their scripture, so they deem it as dis-ordered and unnatural.

"'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

From Leviticus 20:13.  So yeah, scripture...as always.  Can't recall the last time I saw a Catholic stoning someone for wearing mixed fiber clothing or working on a Sunday, though.  How convenient, to be able to pick and choose the parts of your religion you want to comply with. 

In all fairness, I can't recall the last time I saw a Catholic stoning someone for being gay, either. Discriminating against us, objecting to us, wanting rights ignored, sure. But most Catholics have at least dropped the stones.  (as though that's something to be proud of when everything else stands.)

Uh... People still get stoned in the middle east.
People are still beaten or killed for beimg gay all over the world, so..... 

Yes, I know. I was referring specifically to the Catholic church, since Philo referred to them first. It's entirely true that people in other denominations or religions are full of hatred and will kill someone, as you said. I was pointing out one group (Catholics) that was not doing that as far as I'm aware, and then I pointed out that although they weren't killing people, they were certainly discriminating in different ways.

[Amicale]

I was on facebook, and found this image. It made my evening.  Thank you, Mr. Eastwood!

[Sandra Craft]

We need more Republicans like Clint.