What Atheists think about Homosexuality?

[Ali]

Sidestepping the whole SA back-and-forth and returning to an earlier part of the discussion:

To me, the argument that a person does not choose whom they're sexually attracted to (which I think is true) has never been the strongest argument for equal rights or against bigotry. 

And the "who would choose to be gay given the hatred/persecution" argument is almost offensive. No one ever says, "Who would choose to be [insert racial/ethnic minority] given the racism/xenophobia experienced by that group" or "Who would choose to be a woman given the sexism?"

Totally agree!

[Asmodean]

Why should I care if two people hold hands or kiss each other in public?  Why should I care if those two people happen to be unmarried or gay?  Does their love for each other hurt me? Should we make displaying of affection illegal just to make the more prudish among us feel comfortable?  WHY??

I qualified my stand on why I do not agree with homosexuality, per the OP's request  allowing me the right  to do so .   I also clarified that i do not hate a person or group but I have reasons for finding some lifestyle choices , homosexuality included , abberrant and dangerous from independent published data reflecting current reality here in the U.S.   This information stands on its own, and i dont wish to get into the periphial habits of the homosexual community which you have brought up.  Thank you though for your contribution.

You have not answered the highlighted question. Not from me, nor from Whitney. Now that at least two people have asked you that, please come up with a clear answer.

[Liar For Jesus]

1.  They would be counselled in an effort to exit a lifestyle that has been proven to be very very dangerous to their health and life . 

2.   Im not the one who dresses a homosexual person, nor do I tell them how to dress,  nor are they accountable to me ;   just as you can tell when a person is drunk by their appearance, behaviour, and talk... you can usually tell  if people in public are homosexual .   And no..it is not wrong to discern another since we all do that every single day of our lives .

Does this satisfy your inquiry, or,  do you have some more questions  which id be pleased to answer ?

Yes I have more questions, thanks for the offer.

With regards to 2.
You had previously stated that you don't want people parading their sexuallity in public and that you think it should be kept private.
But your answer to 2 shows that you recognise that in some circumstances it is unavoidable. Struggling Atheist has a gay-dar and can spot a gay person who is simply being themselves.

So what I am asking is, do you think gay people need to become someone else in order to stop Struggling Atheist's gay-dar going off?
So that Struggling Atheist can feel more comfortable in public places, being ignorant of who is gay and who is not.

Regarding your specific question,  its up to an individual person if they want to become someone else .  I think we have ALL become someone else since the time we were children --- seems we all go thru life-cycles  (even as adults)  dont you think ?

[xSilverPhinx]

1.  They would be counselled in an effort to exit a lifestyle that has been proven to be very very dangerous to their health and life . 

2.   Im not the one who dresses a homosexual person, nor do I tell them how to dress,  nor are they accountable to me ;   just as you can tell when a person is drunk by their appearance, behaviour, and talk... you can usually tell  if people in public are homosexual .   And no..it is not wrong to discern another since we all do that every single day of our lives .

Does this satisfy your inquiry, or,  do you have some more questions  which id be pleased to answer ?

Yes I have more questions, thanks for the offer.

With regards to 2.
You had previously stated that you don't want people parading their sexuallity in public and that you think it should be kept private.
But your answer to 2 shows that you recognise that in some circumstances it is unavoidable. Struggling Atheist has a gay-dar and can spot a gay person who is simply being themselves.

So what I am asking is, do you think gay people need to become someone else in order to stop Struggling Atheist's gay-dar going off?
So that Struggling Atheist can feel more comfortable in public places, being ignorant of who is gay and who is not.

Regarding your specific question,  its up to an individual person if they want to become someone else .  I think we have ALL become someone else since the time we were children --- seems we all go thru life-cycles  (even as adults)  dont you think ?

You still haven't made a case for why a homosexual should want to be someone else.

Please go back to your premise that it's wrong, or deviant or whatever and settle that first. 

[Whitney]

Please go back to your premise that it's wrong, or deviant or whatever and settle that first. 

Struggling Atheist...just to emphasize the importance of the above as it relates to this 'debate' and allowable conduct on HAF; if you do not want to logically address (keyword LOGICALLY, don't care what your beliefs are if they aren't supported by reason) that which is quoted above then you lost your privileged to discuss homosexuality on this forum.  You've been allowed to continue posting to see if you'd actually back up your previous statements with an attempt at reason and have failed to do so; HAF is not a place where people are allowed to give emotional rants about why they don't like groups due to race, gender or ethnicity so we require that the person either stop promoting that view or become the first person to actually logically justify their bigotry (and yes it is bigotry, like it or not).  If you ignore this direction then you'll be banned for a week to think about how you are choosing to conduct yourself both here and as a human being.

[Traveler]

Struggling Atheist ... I have friends, co-workers, and family members who are gay. You know what? If they had to hide who they are some of them would be suicidal. Is that really what you want? And you haven't answered the question about lesbians, who don't engage in the so-called dangerous behavior you're talking about. You also haven't addressed the fact that AIDS in gay populations has gone down tremendously due to safer sex practices (condoms mostly). I believe the highest incidence of new cases are in straight women whose partners give it to them. How is a woman to know that their man is cheating? Whether with women or with men? I wish you could sit down and talk with some gay people, or bi, or transgendered. You'll find that they're just like everyone else. They have loves, fears, strengths and weaknesses, just like all the rest of us. Imagine if you had to hide who you are, not because of your choice, but because society wouldn't accept you. How would you feel? Bossed around? Controlled? Oppressed? Guess what? Oppression is not nice. In fact, I find it one of the worst crimes of humanity. Women, African Americans, gays ... all of us have experienced oppression at some point in our lives. It's evil. It's destructive. It limits the growth of a society. I used to work in a company that had a policy of valueing differences. Not tolerating it. Not putting up with it. VALUEING it. You know why? Because differences lead to innovation.

[DeterminedJuliet]

Please go back to your premise that it's wrong, or deviant or whatever and settle that first. 

Struggling Atheist...just to emphasize the importance of the above as it relates to this 'debate' and allowable conduct on HAF; if you do not want to logically address (keyword LOGICALLY, don't care what your beliefs are if they aren't supported by reason) that which is quoted above then you lost your privileged to discuss homosexuality on this forum.  You've been allowed to continue posting to see if you'd actually back up your previous statements with an attempt at reason and have failed to do so; HAF is not a place where people are allowed to give emotional rants about why they don't like groups due to race, gender or ethnicity so we require that the person either stop promoting that view or become the first person to actually logically justify their bigotry (and yes it is bigotry, like it or not).  If you ignore this direction then you'll be banned for a week to think about how you are choosing to conduct yourself both here and as a human being.

Totally fair and reasonable. Let's see what happens

[Liar For Jesus]

1.  They would be counselled in an effort to exit a lifestyle that has been proven to be very very dangerous to their health and life . 

2.   Im not the one who dresses a homosexual person, nor do I tell them how to dress,  nor are they accountable to me ;   just as you can tell when a person is drunk by their appearance, behaviour, and talk... you can usually tell  if people in public are homosexual .   And no..it is not wrong to discern another since we all do that every single day of our lives .

Does this satisfy your inquiry, or,  do you have some more questions  which id be pleased to answer ?

Yes I have more questions, thanks for the offer.

With regards to 2.
You had previously stated that you don't want people parading their sexuallity in public and that you think it should be kept private.
But your answer to 2 shows that you recognise that in some circumstances it is unavoidable. Struggling Atheist has a gay-dar and can spot a gay person who is simply being themselves.

So what I am asking is, do you think gay people need to become someone else in order to stop Struggling Atheist's gay-dar going off?
So that Struggling Atheist can feel more comfortable in public places, being ignorant of who is gay and who is not.

Regarding your specific question,  its up to an individual person if they want to become someone else .  I think we have ALL become someone else since the time we were children --- seems we all go thru life-cycles  (even as adults)  dont you think ?

You still haven't made a case for why a homosexual should want to be someone else.

Please go back to your premise that it's wrong, or deviant or whatever and settle that first. 

I dont feel i 'need to make a case'  , as I have indicated that it was my opinion and have shared as much as i want to on the issue.  I could write a book on this much belabored social issue , but Ive contributed as much as I want to here . Yes,  Im of the personal impression that Homosexuality is in fact wrong, deviant for society and individuals....with statistics showing the past and present harm.  There are also other social issues of today which I believe to be equally or more devastating.   Please dont put yourself in a querulous position vis-a-vis my opinion on Homosexuality.  Thanks.

[Liar For Jesus]

Please go back to your premise that it's wrong, or deviant or whatever and settle that first. 

Struggling Atheist...just to emphasize the importance of the above as it relates to this 'debate' and allowable conduct on HAF; if you do not want to logically address (keyword LOGICALLY, don't care what your beliefs are if they aren't supported by reason) that which is quoted above then you lost your privileged to discuss homosexuality on this forum.  You've been allowed to continue posting to see if you'd actually back up your previous statements with an attempt at reason and have failed to do so; HAF is not a place where people are allowed to give emotional rants about why they don't like groups due to race, gender or ethnicity so we require that the person either stop promoting that view or become the first person to actually logically justify their bigotry (and yes it is bigotry, like it or not).  If you ignore this direction then you'll be banned for a week to think about how you are choosing to conduct yourself both here and as a human being.

I appreciate what youve said here, and,  I did take the time to post facts from reliable independent Sources which I listed  as to the current outcome of Homosexuality in American Society  to back my opinion that it is a dangerous social issue both to the Participants as well as to the U.S. Nation ... and I did so out of great concern . There are many Atheists  who dont agree with Homosexuality , but perhaps most do.   I hope im given the forum right to vehemently disagree  with a particular issue being discussed  ;  it is not nor ever has been my intention to purposely cause division  in this Forum  ... but to express my opinions  as others have .  Being sensitive and respectful to what you said above,  I shall refrain from contributing to this particular thread  as its gotton to be rather belabored  --- perhaps I shared too much in any case.  Thanks.

[Asmodean]

Please dont put yourself in a querulous position vis-a-vis my opinion on Homosexuality.  Thanks.

Why shouldn't we, if we disagree?

[The Magic Pudding]

I dont feel i 'need to make a case'  , as I have indicated that it was my opinion and have shared as much as i want to on the issue.  I could write a book on this much belabored social issue ,

A very very very short paragraph perhaps?

.   Please dont put yourself in a querulous position vis-a-vis my opinion on Homosexuality.  Thanks.

Liver flukes and you, I suppose we need to know both.

[xSilverPhinx]

Please dont put yourself in a querulous position vis-a-vis my opinion on Homosexuality.  Thanks.

Why shouldn't we, if we disagree?

If we turned our eyes from every minority that wanted emancipation from prejudice, then where would we be now?

The data you posted doesn't add to your position in anyway. You still failed to make a good conclusive statement based on it.

One issue that could be easily recognised as harmful by both atheists and theists alike is the incidence of STDs

Over 20,000 new cases of HIV/AIDS are diagnosed each year in the U.S.

* 62% of those cases reported before 1996 have died (319,000 Americans).
* Women now represent 30% of new HIV/AIDS cases reported.
* 75% of the cases are from heterosexual sex.
* 3 out of 5 Americans with HIV were infected as teens.
* HIV infection rates are 10 times higher when STDs are not treated properly.

With that in mind (feel free to look up the incidence rates of other STDs), please clarify as to why you think homosexuality is harmful.

If you think it's because your god or whatever says so, then spit it out already If you think there are more societal reasons rather than medical, then elaborate.

[Whitney]

I did take the time to post facts from reliable independent Sources which I listed  as to the current outcome of Homosexuality in American Society  to back my opinion that it is a dangerous social issue both to the Participants as well as to the U.S. Nation

No, you did not...and why it didn't apply has been explained by multiple people.

I don't want to hear another word from you trying to justify your homophobic beliefs unless it's with actual contemporary facts that pertain to homosexuality and not just sex in general.

The best thing you could have done was just read my message, note it mentally, and not post further on the topic; rather than implying that everyone else is being irrational when it's really you.

The ice is only getting thinner...I suggest you do the bolded part of my message if you are not able to comply with the request to present and actual rational argument that is based in reality.

It's very obvious that you have allowed extreme fundamentalist christian views to seep into your own personal belief system...I suggest that it's time for you to clean house; so to speak.  Perhaps whether you believe in god or not shouldn't be the first thing to work on cleaning up.

[Liar For Jesus]

I did take the time to post facts from reliable independent Sources which I listed  as to the current outcome of Homosexuality in American Society  to back my opinion that it is a dangerous social issue both to the Participants as well as to the U.S. Nation

............

It's very obvious that you have allowed extreme fundamentalist christian views to seep into your own personal belief system...I suggest that it's time for you to clean house; so to speak.  Perhaps whether you believe in god or not shouldn't be the first thing to work on cleaning up.

I have to agree with you for the most part because in my very first introductory post in this Forum,  I  explained I had Christian friends who are apart of my circle of friends in addition to atheists of varying levels (soft and militant) .  Ive also indicated subsequently, where i am in my current life journey (limbo for the most part) .  I dont know if ive reached the point of 'cleaning house' as you say..but ive got the dustmop out and hot water is boiling on the stove  as I continue to enjoy being in this very diverse Forum  which contains people on all levels of  seeking  truth.  From what i can determine,  they range from people who are sympathetic toward atheism to those who denounce atheism --- Im somewhere in-between .   I trust this is an acceptable position to be in where this Forum Administration is concerned.  Thanks.

[Asmodean]

Being "inbetween" in regard to atheism isn't the problem.

Dodging questions and not backing up your statements properly, however, is. It would be just as wrong coming from me or Tank or anyone else as it is when coming from you.