What was the final blow that turned you into an atheist?

[dontbelieveinbeatles]

Hello, I'm new and excited at the prospect of posting on here!! I am going to a coffee morning this week with fellow mothers from my children's school. It may involve some Bible study  :hmm: ) and if they don't, it just comes down to it all being "God's plan".

For those of you who have come over from the Dark Side (Christianity)   into the light and clarity of atheism, what was it that finally did it, and made you see that the whole God thing was a load of fairy nonsense?

Thank you!!

[dontbelieveinbeatles]

PS, what's a "Bot"? I had to decide whether or not am I one when I registered, but have no idea what it means! And "Padawan Learner"???!

[Davin]

Welcome to the forums.

The #1 argument I think is the 1# argument for not accepting anything else to exist: lack of evidence and nothing leads to a god. We have reasons to suppose that there is gravity by things falling toward the earth, we have reasons for accepting wind because we can see it affect things, we even have reasons to posite something that is unproven like dark matter because of the effects... however there is no rational reason to propose a god, let alone a specific kind of god or any of a gods attributes, preferences and/or abilities.

The bot in this context is a program that is designed to register to a forum usually for the purposes of submitting spam posts. "Padawan Learner" is just the rank you're at, make more posts to get a different title.

[Tank]

Hi DBIB!

Welcome to HAF.

The 'bot' question on login is there to identify you as a human being as opposed to a 'SPAM Bot'. A SPAM Bot is a program that trawls around the internet looking for forums it can log onto and create an account/membership. When it has done this it creates posts with links in them back to some other site. SPAM Bots are generally incapable of reading a screen in the same way a person is, it therefore can't respond correctly to the question 'are you a bot' and is thus identified as one and the account creation is stopped.

Your forum rank 'Padawan Learner' updates as your post count increases, I think the first change happens on your 50th post when you get posting access to all the areas outside 'Getting to Know you'

This thread viewtopic.php?p=98649#p98649 may be worth reading as it deals with your main interest of why people stop being theists. So does this one viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7237

I hope these give you some insights, post any questions you have here.

I would have thought a 'Devout Atheist' is an oxymoron!  

Regards
Chris

[Whitney]

I left Christianity behind well before I became an atheist.  

The issue with reconciling a loving god with something as evil as hell was a big deal breaker.  Even viewing hell as total destruction of the sinning soul didn't sit right because the punishment was based on faith as opposed to the true nature of the person.  I didn't see why God would care what religion someone is or if they have any religion at all; nor why an all knowing god would create people knowing that most would be going to hell.  In short, when you break Christianity down to basics it just doesn't make any sense.

[Ulver]

Welcome! Good luck with these future meet ups.

My number one argument against god is the evidence of human fingerprints left all over every description and assertion about god. These include: fishy similarities between gods/characters in religions, yet the denial of this, the sneaky amendments made to religion modern to fit the needs of modern citizens, the moral inconsistencies, and the fact the existence of god fables appear to just be a human coping skill. We do, afterall, deal with some scary stuff in life, and it makes sense to me some people would need help ("perfect" and "divine" help) making sense of it.

[Asmodean]

The bot in this context is a program that is designed to register to a forum usually for the purposes of submitting spam posts.

Alternatively, it's a scout for the search engine so they know what this thing is about.

To address the title question, there was no such "blow" in my case.

[xSilverPhinx]

So I wanted to ask if you could help me with some ammunition ... basically, what do you consider to beTHE most convincing arguments for there being no God? Christians always seem to have an answer for everything (and I often don't, unfortunately   ) and if they don't, it just comes down to it all being "God's plan".

Welcome!

Well it depends of what they're claiming their god is. I would make them question their answers.

[Cosmo]

In the end of "The God Delusion" there is a passage where Dawkins talks about a person (he seemed to know her personally) who converted to Atheism. She explains that one day, as she was walking, a little voice in here head whispered to her words out of which she initially couldn't make sense. Then the whisper became louder, and louder to the point where she could distinctly hear: "There is no god". She was surprised and very scared, but she eventually accepted it. I had a very strikingly similar experience. The point that I am trying to make is that conversion comes from within. It is the final step of a very long and difficult internal process. Indeed, the brain has powerful immune defenses that it will wield against any thoughts that go against religion. Nevertheless conversion needs arguments, and there are plenty. Start with logical incoherences, Whitney rightfully points out the disconnect between loving humans and sending them for eternity in Hell if they "mis-behave". There are plenty more: why send your son to be killed when you can just forgive forgive humanity (it sounds much simpler than creating the Universe), why did God create us with major flaws, etc... I feel that there is one thing that needs to be stressed out, group, then self, indoctrination is very hard to break down. I feel that the best thing you can do is lead by example. As a species, we need to see that other member of our group can live a healthy and happy life with beliefs that are different from ours before we can consider embracing such beliefs. Ask questions, do not sound judgmental or pedantic, you will trigger a defensive state of mind thereby shortening the reach of your future arguments. Instead present your arguments in the form of calm, simple, questions. Do not lose your temper, and accept the power of the brain to stubbornly refuse the apparently blatant evidence. Finally, explain the alternative to God. The idea of a life without a God is completely foreign to these ladies (I know because I was there), or even worse, it is associated with sadness, despair, evil, and other bad things. Either way, the simple fact that you are an atheist and you are managing to live a positive life is already a great argument that these mothers have to acknowledge.

[Stevil]

I don't think your goal should be to convert the Christians, just show them that you are a decent person who doesn't deserve to go to hell simply for not believing in their god.
You might want to explain that it is difficult for you to link the creation of the universe as definately being caused by a god that was already there and that it is hard to see that there is a god given that the god is invisible and unobservable. You can't simply decide to believe in something, and voila, you have a belief.

[Ulver]

In the end of "The God Delusion" there is a passage where Dawkins talks about a person (he seemed to know her personally) who converted to Atheism. She explains that one day, as she was walking, a little voice in here head whispered to her words out of which she initially couldn't make sense. Then the whisper became louder, and louder to the point where she could distinctly hear: "There is no god". She was surprised and very scared, but she eventually accepted it. I had a very strikingly similar experience. The point that I am trying to make is that conversion comes from within. It is the final step of a very long and difficult internal process. Indeed, the brain has powerful immune defenses that it will wield against any thoughts that go against religion. Nevertheless conversion needs arguments, and there are plenty. Start with logical incoherences, Whitney rightfully points out the disconnect between loving humans and sending them for eternity in Hell if they "mis-behave". There are plenty more: why send your son to be killed when you can just forgive forgive humanity (it sounds much simpler than creating the Universe), why did God create us with major flaws, etc... I feel that there is one thing that needs to be stressed out, group, then self, indoctrination is very hard to break down. I feel that the best thing you can do is lead by example. As a species, we need to see that other member of our group can live a healthy and happy life with beliefs that are different from ours before we can consider embracing such beliefs. Ask questions, do not sound judgmental or pedantic, you will trigger a defensive state of mind thereby shortening the reach of your future arguments. Instead present your arguments in the form of calm, simple, questions. Do not lose your temper, and accept the power of the brain to stubbornly refuse the apparently blatant evidence. Finally, explain the alternative to God. The idea of a life without a God is completely foreign to these ladies (I know because I was there), or even worse, it is associated with sadness, despair, evil, and other bad things. Either way, the simple fact that you are an atheist and you are managing to live a positive life is already a great argument that these mothers have to acknowledge.

This is a very good wall of text I agree, Cosmo.

[Cosmo]

Thank you  

[YaarghMatey487]

I'm not sure I have an argument that would sway someone who has faith. I think for me, proof was looking at the people around me and seeing that their "faith" allowed them to excuse all sorts of ridiculous (xenophobic, racist, homophobic, hypocritical, cruel, etc.) behavior. Also, the fact that their faith was based on a book that was written long after the said events occurred and that it was filled with so many ridiculous claims and contradictions that there was no way I could ever believe in anything so outrageous. In the end, I think it comes down to a matter of faith more than anything else. Atheists can be given all sorts of "proof" that god exists and atheists can give religious people evidence to the contrary. I can't tell you how many debates I've had with my family members about how and why the earth is most definitely not 5,000 years old. They think I'm a liar because they believe that god is like a bawss and can do anything when and where and how he chooses. Science be damned.

[Gasturbine]

I never really had a defining moment...my father taught us both aspects, creation, and evolution, and also made it clear one could combine both. I suppose I was 13 or 14 when I became "convinced" there was no god. Been a Happy Atheist for the next 35 years, seeing my beliefs more verified and accepted during that time.

Here is my manifesto; http://www.n8wct.com/evolve/

[chempel96]

One of my favorite points: The Bible was written by man, NOT by God, so it needs to be treated like it.