Sexism: Is It Acceptable?

[Tank]

What i'd like to know is, outside of physical necessities. What possible justification could one have to treat women differently from men?

Yep. That's what I'm waiting to see.

[LegendarySandwich]

Good grief.  Of course it's okay to treat the sexes differently, in certain circumstances.  Boxing matches,

Why can't a woman box?

maternity leave,

Doesn't Denmark have a paternity leave for fathers?

mammograms, prostate exams.

Those are medical procedures, which is something totally different.

Male and female brains probably have certain slight differences, just as their bodies do.  Be specific.  Present a scenario and ask if it's okay to treat men and women differently.  General outrage over the idea of some possible discrimination isn't helpful.

I'm not outraged; I simply want to know what his opinion is. I also wanted this to become a general discussion thread on sexism.

Of course in some situations, men and women have to be treated differently simply because there are some differences (like the medical procedures you mentioned earlier). However, in our society, the lines between men and women are blurring. Traditional gender roles are becoming obsolete.

[Whitney]

Both Men and women can get breast cancer....so no need to treat them different in regard to mammograms; anyone who's doctor thinks they need one should get one.

A pregnant woman is given maternity leave to recover from the horrors of birth...this is because she is has a medical need to take leave; not directly because she is female.  (imo, men ought to get some time off to help the mother too)

There is no reason why a female could not box a male in her same weight class...it's just that the type of people who like boxing don't want to go coed.

While there are some differences between the male and female brain in general, these are not true for everyone and many of these traits are learned so it doesn't' make sense to treat people differently based on gender.  Get to know someone and then treat them as they want to be treated.

[LegendarySandwich]

Both Men and women can get breast cancer....so no need to treat them different in regard to mammograms; anyone who's doctor thinks they need one should get one.

A pregnant woman is given maternity leave to recover from the horrors of birth...this is because she is has a medical need to take leave; not directly because she is female.  (imo, men ought to get some time off to help the mother too)

There is no reason why a female could not box a male in her same weight class...it's just that the type of people who like boxing don't want to go coed.

While there are some differences between the male and female brain in general, these are not true for everyone and many of these traits are learned so it doesn't' make sense to treat people differently based on gender.  Get to know someone and then treat them as they want to be treated.

I agree with this post.

One thing I'm kind of curious about is bathrooms. Do you guys think we should start seeing more unisex restrooms, or what?

[pilchardo]

I think he understood it perfectly. I'm fairly certain he's Bubblepot, so it's likely he's just being a troll again.

Reported.

[The Magic Pudding]

What i'd like to know is, outside of physical necessities. What possible justification could one have to treat women differently from men?

I took my daughter to the circus when she was about three, unfortunately I had need to use a crowded public toilet.
As I recall I took her in and got her to stand out of the way not looking at the grubby males.
If there was a well presented motherly person standing outside I may have asked her to mind my daughter for a moment, I wouldn't have asked a single unknown man to do the same.

I do think it's good having males looking after little kids in day-care, but an all male centre would seem a bit odd to me, all female would seem perfectly natural.

[LegendarySandwich]

I think he understood it perfectly. I'm fairly certain he's Bubblepot, so it's likely he's just being a troll again.

Reported.

Okay.

By the way, are you going to respond anytime soon? I made this thread specifically for you; I'd appreciate an answer.

[Ultima22689]

What i'd like to know is, outside of physical necessities. What possible justification could one have to treat women differently from men?

I took my daughter to the circus when she was about three, unfortunately I had need to use a crowded public toilet.
As I recall I took her in and got her to stand out of the way not looking at the grubby males.
If there was a well presented motherly person standing outside I may have asked her to mind my daughter for a moment, I wouldn't have asked a single unknown man to do the same.

I do think it's good having males looking after little kids in day-care, but an all male centre would seem a bit odd to me, all female would seem perfectly natural.

This makes sense. Men tend to not look like the friendly happy type however, I wonder, would a mother allow a friendly looking man to watch her? I don't mean any man, you know, the nice guys, groomed, friendly features, a general positive vibe from him. Although I was a boy, my mother, who is very protective once let a man watch me for a moment, I can't remember why but this random guy talked with me for ten minutes and for a day, got me interested in baseball, something all my father figures have failed to do. This is going a little off-topic but I think western society at some point began to portray the general idea of a man as somewhat negative in regards to how they treat other people. When you hear rape, you automatically assume a man raped a woman, when someone was robbed, they are asked "what did he look like?" I don't think there is anything to blame for that but I have to wonder, why can't a man be trusted to watch a child? Maybe i'm being naive, someone want to inform me?

[LegendarySandwich]

This makes sense. Men tend to not look like the friendly happy type however, I wonder, would a mother allow a friendly looking man to watch her? I don't mean any man, you know, the nice guys, groomed, friendly features, a general positive vibe from him. Although I was a boy, my mother, who is very protective once let a man watch me for a moment, I can't remember why but this random guy talked with me for ten minutes and for a day, got me interested in baseball, something all my father figures have failed to do. This is going a little off-topic but I think western society at some point began to portray the general idea of a man as somewhat negative in regards to how they treat other people. When you hear rape, you automatically assume a man raped a woman, when someone was robbed, they are asked "what did he look like?" I don't think there is anything to blame for that but I have to wonder, why can't a man be trusted to watch a child? Maybe i'm being naive, someone want to inform me?

Just instinct and unconscious prejudice, I would think. Stereotyping is natural human behavior.

[penfold]

Pilchardo said that it's okay to treat men and women differently since they are different. I replied that with that line of thinking, it's okay to treat white people differently than black people because they are different. I asked him what his reasoning was for it's okay to treat people of different genders differently. He told me to make a new thread. I did. Now I'm awaiting his response.

My mummy told me that boys and girls are different.

A boy treats a girl differently because he's a boy and she's a girl, and she treats him differently because she's a girl and he's a boy ... sometimes a girl treats another girl ... which is nice.

Sexism is not about treating people differently, it is about equality and power. Hitchens was quite correct at the munk debates when he said the single most important progressive step any society can take is giving women control over reproduction. Sitting quietly by while our governments support and ally with autocracies where women are treated as property is sexism, and that is not ok. And here, Legendary, your comparison is apt: would we allow our governments to support a country that enslaves the black portion of its population?

But in the mean time have fun with your fight...

[dloubet]

Not being bisexual, I treat men and women differently.

So sue me. ;-)

[LegendarySandwich]

Not being bisexual, I treat men and women differently.

So sue me. ;-)

How dare you, you SEXIST! You should be ASHAMED!

[The Magic Pudding]

Sexism is not about treating people differently, it is about equality and power. Hitchens was quite correct at the munk debates when he said the single most important progressive step any society can take is giving women control over reproduction. Sitting quietly by while our governments support and ally with autocracies where women are treated as property is sexism, and that is not ok. And here, Legendary, your comparison is apt: would we allow our governments to support a country that enslaves the black portion of its population?

But in the mean time have fun with your fight...

I've heard Hitchens display a sexist attitude in an interview.  He expressed the view that his wife and daughters shouldn't have to work if they don't want to.  My recollection is he thought of them as princesses who shouldn't have to be burdened with the need to support themselves.  The female interviewer was a bit taken aback, she did push him on it a bit but he's Hitchens, what can you do?


http://www.abc.net.au/tv/firsttuesday/s ... transcript  There is video available as well.

CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: No, I would expect to take care of them. Work if you want but you don't have to.

JENNIFER BYRNE: You are the commander's son, aren't you?

CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: Yeah, I am, yes.

JENNIFER BYRNE: You...you really mean that?

CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: Sure.

JENNIFER BYRNE: You don't think women should go and work?

CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: No, I said they're welcome to do that. I'm thrilled if they want to. But if they don't want to, they don't have to.

JENNIFER BYRNE: Is this you being ironic? Is this your famous attachment to irony?

CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: No. What's so difficult about it?

JENNIFER BYRNE: It's just wrong.

(LAUGHTER)

JENNIFER BYRNE: Just absolutely wrong.

CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: No, they're called the gentle sex for a good reason. Don't wanna see them coarsened in the labour market, no. No, not if they don't want to.

JENNIFER BYRNE: You're 61, Christopher, not 180.

CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: Yes, I'm here... I'm here to look after them.

[LegendarySandwich]

I don't anyone should be forced to work, but don't start crying if you can't afford to pay the bills.

[Wilson]

Both Men and women can get breast cancer....so no need to treat them different in regard to mammograms; anyone who's doctor thinks they need one should get one.

How about yearly mammograms or yearly prostate exams?  Someone mentioned separate bathrooms.  How about discriminating as to sex when you're considering asking someone out, or having sex with him or her?  Restricting oneself to one gender would be so wrong!

I'm sure all of us (probably) would, in general, be opposed to unfair discrimination against men, or women.  But let's be practical.  Present a scenario, and we'll weigh in.