The hackenslash Challenge (split)

[iSok]

Hackenslash, in my case it's different.

I have the Qur'an here. I have no idea who wrote it besides God or aliens.

- it doesn't contain a single contradiction.. (if you knew how it was revealed......)

- it tells of things that were unknown back then....for example this verse..and there are many more..

"And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you."(Quran, 78:6-7)

What the above says, 95% of the people still don't know that mountains are actually stabilizing tectonic plates...
How could a man have known this?

- there is no other arabic book like it.. one of it's kind....

- it claims so much, yet it is never wrong...

- why would a man-made book contain a verse like this?
 
“Do they not consider the Quran? Had it been from
any other than Allah, they would surely have found
therein much discrepancy.” (Surah An‐Nisa, 4:82)

That's like challenging others to find contradictions...a man-made book would never contain a verse like that..

- The promise that it will never get altered...Dhikr = Quran

"Verily, I revealed the Dhikr and verily I will preserve it."
[Noble Quran 15:9]

If the Quran had changed, then God would not fulfill His promise...

- Professor Arthur J. Arberry, Professor of Arabic at Cambridge University

Apart from certain orthographical modifications of the originally somewhat primitive method of writing, intended to render unambiguous and easy the task of reading the recitation, the Koran as printed in the twentieth century is identical with the Koran as authorized by Uthman more than 1300 years ago


Till this today the Quran has not changed a word...

Or that Muhammad (pbuh) was foretold in the Old testament and the New testament....

And this is not everything..if you read history about the revelation of the Quran and the life of Muhammad (pbuh)..

Personally with all the knowledge I have, not believing this would be like closing my eyes putting fingers in my ears
pretending as it never happened.
It would be nothing more than 'I don't believe in God because science can explain everything'.
I tried a lot to figure out where the Quran comes from...basically I came up with three theories.

- All of it was dumb luck (man wrote it)
- God
- Aliens

I take my chances, I believe in God.

[Whitney]

iSok, this thread is not for discussions.

[iSok]

iSok, this thread is not for discussions.

It's called preaching

[pilchardo]

Hackenslash, in my case it's different.

I have the Qur'an here. I have no idea who wrote it besides God or aliens.

- it doesn't contain a single contradiction.. (if you knew how it was revealed......)

- it tells of things that were unknown back then....for example this verse..and there are many more..

"And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you."(Quran, 78:6-7)

What the above says, 95% of the people still don't know that mountains are actually stabilizing tectonic plates...
How could a man have known this?

- there is no other arabic book like it.. one of it's kind....

- it claims so much, yet it is never wrong...

- why would a man-made book contain a verse like this?
 
“Do they not consider the Quran? Had it been from
any other than Allah, they would surely have found
therein much discrepancy.” (Surah An‐Nisa, 4:82)

That's like challenging others to find contradictions...a man-made book would never contain a verse like that..

- The promise that it will never get altered...Dhikr = Quran

"Verily, I revealed the Dhikr and verily I will preserve it."
[Noble Quran 15:9]

If the Quran had changed, then God would not fulfill His promise...

- Professor Arthur J. Arberry, Professor of Arabic at Cambridge University

Apart from certain orthographical modifications of the originally somewhat primitive method of writing, intended to render unambiguous and easy the task of reading the recitation, the Koran as printed in the twentieth century is identical with the Koran as authorized by Uthman more than 1300 years ago


Till this today the Quran has not changed a word...

Or that Muhammad (pbuh) was foretold in the Old testament and the New testament....

And this is not everything..if you read history about the revelation of the Quran and the life of Muhammad (pbuh)..

Personally with all the knowledge I have, not believing this would be like closing my eyes putting fingers in my ears
pretending as it never happened.
It would be nothing more than 'I don't believe in God because science can explain everything'.
I tried a lot to figure out where the Quran comes from...basically I came up with three theories.

- All of it was dumb luck (man wrote it)
- God
- Aliens

I take my chances, I believe in God.

Are there any other verses in the Qur'an like the one about mountains, ie about stuff that couldn't have been known back then?

[iSok]

Are there any other verses in the Qur'an like the one about mountains, ie about stuff that couldn't have been known back then?

A lot of verses indicate to things like these.

This one for example (expansion of the universe).

"And it is We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it." (The Qur'an, 51:47)

Or that all matter came from one point and life comes from water.

"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder, and We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (The Qur'an, 21:30)

Or that the atmosphere is our shield for different aspects (meteors..radiation etc)

"We made the sky a preserved and protected roof yet still they turn away from Our Signs.." (The Qur'an, 21:32)

Or that mountains move with the earth crust, and do not stand still at one point.

"You will see the mountains you reckoned to be solid going past like clouds." (The Qur'an, 27:88)

There are about a thousand verses in the Quran on subjects like these, the Quran calls these verses 'Signs'.

[pilchardo]

Are there any other verses in the Qur'an like the one about mountains, ie about stuff that couldn't have been known back then?

A lot of verses indicate to things like these.

This one for example (expansion of the universe).

"And it is We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it." (The Qur'an, 51:47)

Or that all matter came from one point and life comes from water.

"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder, and We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (The Qur'an, 21:30)

Or that the atmosphere is our shield for different aspects (meteors..radiation etc)

"We made the sky a preserved and protected roof yet still they turn away from Our Signs.." (The Qur'an, 21:32)

Or that mountains move with the earth crust, and do not stand still at one point.

"You will see the mountains you reckoned to be solid going past like clouds." (The Qur'an, 27:88)

There are about a thousand verses in the Quran on subjects like these, the Quran calls these verses 'Signs'.

Regardless of whether or not god dictated the Qur'an to Muhammad, either way, I have a lot of respect for ancient knowledge. It seems to me that so called "primitive" cultures do know many things that science is only just beginning to discover, or hasn't yet been able to confirm. Personally I think it's down to the possibility that there may have been a time when scientific knowledge and technology was far more advanced than it is today. What do you think?

[hackenslash]

This one for example (expansion of the universe).

"And it is We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it." (The Qur'an, 51:47)

That's not what my translation says, and that's completely aside from the Texas Sharpshooter gambit you have erected:

51:47 We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent.

Or that mountains move with the earth crust, and do not stand still at one point.

"You will see the mountains you reckoned to be solid going past like clouds." (The Qur'an, 27:88)

In what logically consistent universe could that be translated into plate tectonics? Poetry is not science.

[pilchardo]

This one for example (expansion of the universe).

"And it is We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it." (The Qur'an, 51:47)

That's not what my translation says, and that's completely aside from the Texas Sharpshooter gambit you have erected:

51:47 We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent.

Or that mountains move with the earth crust, and do not stand still at one point.

"You will see the mountains you reckoned to be solid going past like clouds." (The Qur'an, 27:88)

In what logically consistent universe could that be translated into plate tectonics? Poetry is not science.

They didn't have the same vocabulary that we have, so it stands to reason that you can't expect them to have used phrases such as "plate tectonics".

[iSok]

Regardless of whether or not god dictated the Qur'an to Muhammad, either way, I have a lot of respect for ancient knowledge. It seems to me that so called "primitive" cultures do know many things that science is only just beginning to discover, or hasn't yet been able to confirm. Personally I think it's down to the possibility that there may have been a time when scientific knowledge and technology was far more advanced than it is today. What do you think?

Too be honnest Pilchardo, I think it's impossible.  
The expanding of the universe, could you just guess that by looking at the night sky?

Or looking at an mountain and saying it moves around and it stabilises tectonic plates?

Or that all matter came from one point?

Or that a man described the processing of an embryo in the womb when it's in the first stage (few cells), where you usually need a microscope for..
And that after 1400 years an embryologist/surgeon converts after reading these verses?

However these signs in the Quran are not the most convincing to me.
But the environment, in which the Quran came, and the uniqueness of the Quran.

The Arabs back then were pretty good in wars, slavery and killing people.
And here comes an illiterate man that claims he's a messenger of God, in the midst of this chaos.
The fact that the Arabs just couldn't kill him....while they so eagerly wanted.

Or the story about Abu Lahab, Muhammad's (pbuh) uncle, who was not the most pleasant man...always trying to destroy Islam by killing many of its followers in the most brutal way.
10 years before this man died, the Quran came with the message that he would never change.
All Abu Lahab had to do is to say that he's a Muslim and that way he would prove that the Quran was man-made.
10 years passed..and he didn't say it.

Basically I have an overwhelming ammount of arguments for me personally to say that the Quran is from God or aliens.

Walking away from it so I can fornicate as much as I can...won't be easy, I need something which will
proof that the Quran comes from man.

[LegendarySandwich]

Personally, I think the more probable option out of the two is that it came from aliens.

[iSok]

This one for example (expansion of the universe).

"And it is We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it." (The Qur'an, 51:47)

That's not what my translation says, and that's completely aside from the Texas Sharpshooter gambit you have erected:

51:47 We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent.

Or that mountains move with the earth crust, and do not stand still at one point.

"You will see the mountains you reckoned to be solid going past like clouds." (The Qur'an, 27:88)

In what logically consistent universe could that be translated into plate tectonics? Poetry is not science.

It's upto you to say that it's wrong.

I see those verses as.

Mountains <--> Less earthquakes
Mountains move like clouds.


In your eternal conquest to deny God, even claiming this goes a bit too far...

[Sophus]

In your eternal conquest to deny God, even claiming this goes a bit too far...

Eternal? Don't you mean finite?    Sorry, couldn't resist. But I have to say, it's just poetry.

[pilchardo]

Regardless of whether or not god dictated the Qur'an to Muhammad, either way, I have a lot of respect for ancient knowledge. It seems to me that so called "primitive" cultures do know many things that science is only just beginning to discover, or hasn't yet been able to confirm. Personally I think it's down to the possibility that there may have been a time when scientific knowledge and technology was far more advanced than it is today. What do you think?

Too be honnest Pilchardo, I think it's impossible.  
The expanding of the universe, could you just guess that by looking at the night sky?

Or looking at an mountain and saying it moves around and it stabilises tectonic plates?

Or that all matter came from one point?

Or that a man described the processing of an embryo in the womb when it's in the first stage (few cells), where you usually need a microscope for..
And that after 1400 years an embryologist/surgeon converts after reading these verses?

However these signs in the Quran are not the most convincing to me.
But the environment, in which the Quran came, and the uniqueness of the Quran.

The Arabs back then were pretty good in wars, slavery and killing people.
And here comes an illiterate man that claims he's a messenger of God, in the midst of this chaos.
The fact that the Arabs just couldn't kill him....while they so eagerly wanted.

Or the story about Abu Lahab, Muhammad's (pbuh) uncle, who was not the most pleasant man...always trying to destroy Islam by killing many of its followers in the most brutal way.
10 years before this man died, the Quran came with the message that he would never change.
All Abu Lahab had to do is to say that he's a Muslim and that way he would prove that the Quran was man-made.
10 years passed..and he didn't say it.

Basically I have an overwhelming ammount of arguments for me personally to say that the Quran is from God or aliens.

Walking away from it so I can fornicate as much as I can...won't be easy, I need something which will
proof that the Quran comes from man.

What I mean is that the knowledge back then was advanced, regardless of where it came from. It may have come from god (although as I say I'm reluctant to believe that) or aliens. To be perfectly honest I would say aliens. However, if it can come from another planet, why not this one too? I'm playing devil's advocate but I', inclined to believe it came from another planet or planets.

As for the language used to describe things which we would now describe in other words, that's plausible.

[hackenslash]

They didn't have the same vocabulary that we have, so it stands to reason that you can't expect them to have used phrases such as "plate tectonics".

I'm not talking about the vocabulary, I'm talking about there being no reasonable way to translate that sura as what we know as plate tectonics.

[iSok]

What I mean is that the knowledge back then was advanced, regardless of where it came from. It may have come from god (although as I say I'm reluctant to believe that) or aliens. To be perfectly honest I would say aliens. However, if it can come from another planet, why not this one too? I'm playing devil's advocate but I', inclined to believe it came from another planet or planets.

As for the language used to describe things which we would now describe in other words, that's plausible.

That's true Pilchardo.

Aliens could have seen humans and decided to play a joke on us.

However, the ethical code in the Quran appeals to me a lot.
For example, silence is an important factor within Islam.
Open your mouth only, when you have something good to say, never say something which
will not benefit others.

I'm following this religion not just because I firmly believe in God but also the morals that are given to mankind.
We're not allowed to squash a bug if it's not neccesary.

There was a time when Muhammad (pbuh) was so poor, he was persecuted by the others Arabs that he
had only one blanket to sleep on. One night he found a cat sleeping on his blanket.
He tore the blanket in two parts, just so the cat would not get disturbed.


What do you mean with the bold part?




@Sophus, I'm looking forward to fornicating a lot.
But Hackenslash has to come with better points
Nonetheless poetry or not...it's amazing that in all of thoses verses he (if it was by man) didn't make single mistake.