New to Forum

[Solacer]

Hi all, I'm a 21 year old agnostic form Florida, here to discuss matters of religion and human existance- two topics I find most interesting. I reject all known religions, but have a deep appreciation for the sciences and philosophy. I love to debate/discuss, and would be pleased to do so with anyone who is willing on a more personal level. I look forward to hearing from everyone.



 

[tacoma_kyle]

Whats up new guy? This is a pretty nice place.

So you are a agnostic believer?

Have fun! This site has been a little more active lately for some reason.

[Squid]

Welcome aboard.

[skeptigirl]

From one new member to another, howdy.

[McQ]

Welcome to the forum.

[SteveS]

Hi Solacer - welcome!

[Solacer]

Thanks all. I'm an agnostic agnostic. I don't believe we have the ability to ever learn exactly how the universe began, or even it if had a beginning. Science should continue striving to better understand it,  but I think people should speculate as to the meaning of life and like questions, without coming to rash conclusions. Religions believe they have the answers to life's great mysteries, so why even continue our search for knowledge if everything we need to know is in the Bible? The universe may very well have been created by some kind of being or god, but its presence is invisible and certainly not in each of our lives personally. Religion is a plague, using fear, imagination, and gullibility to spread. Once science begins to break through as it's doing now, more and more people will hopefully turn to what sems to be the only true way of life: that of the agnostic. Atheism denies existance of a creator, but I don't. Why is the notion of a creator so far-fetched? Even the physical universe is far too complex to be understood by humans. There are things, unknown unknowns, that would seem absolutely unbelievable if a person were to suddenly learn them, so I don't cast aside the possibility of some great creator looming out there, hidden away behind the invisible walls of higher dimensions. I'm happy just to be here, I'm completely humbled by the power of the world around us that we somehow have come to be a part of. It's amazing, god or no god, and it suffices to just "stare in awe," as Einstein put it.

[McQ]

Thanks all. I'm an agnostic agnostic. I don't believe we have the ability to ever learn exactly how the universe began, or even it if had a beginning. Science should continue striving to better understand it,  but I think people should speculate as to the meaning of life and like questions, without coming to rash conclusions. Religions believe they have the answers to life's great mysteries, so why even continue our search for knowledge if everything we need to know is in the Bible? The universe may very well have been created by some kind of being or god, but its presence is invisible and certainly not in each of our lives personally. Religion is a plague, using fear, imagination, and gullibility to spread. Once science begins to break through as it's doing now, more and more people will hopefully turn to the only true way of life: that of the agnostic. Atheism denies existance of a creator, but I don't. Why is the notion of a creator so far-fetched? Even the physical universe is far too complex to be understood by humans. There are things, unknown unknowns, that would seem absolutely unbelievable if a person were to suddenly learn them, so I don't cast aside the possibility of some great creator looming out there, hidden away behind the invisible walls of higher dimensions. I'm happy just to be here, I'm completely humbled by the power of the world around us that we somehow have come to be a part of. It's amazing, god or no god, and it suffices to just "stare in awe," as Einstein put it.

Welcome, Solacer. Thanks for the background. I will have to disagree with you on your claim of agnosticism being the "only true way of life" though.

But hey, if it's working for you, enjoy life!

[Solacer]

That's my opinion based on the three choices I see presented: atheism, theism, or agnosticism. Theism and atheism are dead set beliefs- a god or gods exist, no gods exist. One of the two must be true, and since there is no way of certainly knowing, the only true path seems to be through agnosticism. It is certainly true that we are ignorant, and agnosticism is all about ignorance. What do you believe is true, McQ?

[joeactor]

That's my opinion based on the three choices I see presented: atheism, theism, or agnosticism. Theism and atheism are dead set beliefs- a god or gods exist, no gods exist. One of the two must be true, and since there is no way of certainly knowing, the only true path seems to be through agnosticism. It is certainly true that we are ignorant, and agnosticis is all about ignorance. What do you believe is true, McQ?

Hi Solacer - Welcome!

I consider myself an Agnostic Theist.

For me, Agnostic/Gnostic deals with Knowledge, and Theist/Atheist deals with belief.  With that definition, the two are different spheres that may or may not intersect.

Nice to meet a pure Agnostic!

Cheers,
JoeActor

[tacoma_kyle]

Theism and atheism are dead set beliefs- a god or gods exist, no gods exist.

I have to sorta object. Defenitively, yeah I guess it makes sense, but the term atheism seems to be questionably defined (as of me thinking about it 13.4 seconds back). Reason I say is why is there even the question of theism/atheism?

Sosciety. Why other? If noone ever decided to believe in a hypothetical, would those terms even be around? Would there be any questioning wheather or not there is is a god? No. Noone would think of it, it'd just be life and people would kinda wonder about it.

If history was rewritten and noone was previously conditioned to have to decide on the existence of the divine, day by day, observation after observation...would that philosophy even be contemplated?


I should also thank you one a respect. I remember about 2 years back in a philosophy class at a community college that the topic of 'rationality' of beliefs came up and I was confused outta my mind as to how agnosticism was the only ratonal one to choose...according to philosophers. Now I see what you mean, or at least I hope I do in the way I should be!

But anyhow I personally feel that that philosophy is incorrectly based because of the effects sosciety has thrown into play. They arent all correct. Who was it, Jefferson that discovered electricity or somethin? Well there was two possible directions that electricity could travel. In the positive direction, or the negative. Well he guessed wrong! Electricity in fact travels in the negative direction.

I really hope I didnt mix that up .

[Eclecticsaturn]

hello and welcome to the site. hopely we can give you enough info for you to make up your mind. (meaning no disrespect, just a comment about being an agnostic)

[McQ]

That's my opinion based on the three choices I see presented: atheism, theism, or agnosticism. Theism and atheism are dead set beliefs- a god or gods exist, no gods exist. One of the two must be true, and since there is no way of certainly knowing, the only true path seems to be through agnosticism. It is certainly true that we are ignorant, and agnosticism is all about ignorance. What do you believe is true, McQ?

Solacer, what I take issue with is not agnostic belief, but your claim that it is the one true way of life. It is clearly not the "one true way", as others live all their lives with adequate beliefs. If you had said something along the order of, "What I've found to be the most fitting for me is agnosticism.", then there's absolutely no issue.

JoeActor stated something I agree with in the difference between knowledge and belief. I know that I can't disprove the existence of a god, but I have no reason to fill the gaps in my knowledge with a god either. Therefore, I don't believe in one. And I really don't care if there is or is not one.

So my stated belief system runs along the lines of an ambivalent naturalist.

That is a very short answer to what is obviously much more complex. I simply didn't like your use of an all or nothing premise, which I found didn't cover the spectrum of beliefs, and then your statement of fact for one of them only.

Hope I cleared up my meaning. It's not that I disagree with agnostics, just your interpretation of the choices available.

[joeactor]

So my stated belief system runs along the lines of an ambivalent naturalist.

Great phrase!  Can't say I've heard anyone use "ambivalent naturalist" before... very descriptive!

[pjkeeley]

Hi welcome to the forum.

Why is the notion of a creator so far-fetched?

Because it's so obviously a product of human imagination, so completely grounded in our own human logic that if it were a crime scene it would have our fingerprints all over it. Man the tool-maker *makes* things, so naturally he assumes that the world was made by a much larger, invisible version of himself...? To paraphrase Douglas Adams: you can see why it's such a treacherous idea! (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTOzM2-jxyg)

The idea that the universe had a conscious creator is a very easy assumption for a conscious being to make (particularly a conscious being who himself creates things). I admit, that doesn't make the idea 'far-fetched'. But you claim "the physical universe is far too complex to be understood by humans". So wouldn't that make any explanation of the universe that isn't complex, that is easily understood by humans, a far-fetched one? Especially since the belief in a creator is ancient and precedes every scientific discovery in history.

Sorry to attack your beliefs in your introduction post. I just like to debate.