Re: How DARE you!?

[Daniel]

Note: If someone could show me the proper way of quoting scriptures, I'd appreciate it.

If I get into a religious debate, someone often pokes their heed in to comment, "Why are you trying to change other people's beliefs? What's wrong with believing in something? Other people's opinions don't affect you."

Well, let's work together to make a list of well said responses to this claim. A few rough ideas come to mind, such as politics, education and other social impacts that aren't private, but I'd like this list to be very well done. I'll edit in new points as they come. Thanks for the help

• Contrary to the notion, above, that it's wrong to question people's beliefs, many find it religious duty to spread their faith. Example:
  
  Matthew 28:18-20
  Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.  Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,  and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

[Will]

How about Matthew 28:18-20 which specifically require Christians to change other people's beliefs? Or Mark 16:15-16? Or any number of other Bible verses featuring God or Jesus telling Christians to change the opinions of people that don't affect them. The gaul of some people.

[Thumpalumpacus]

If I'm in a religious debate, I'm of course going to propound my views. Otherwise, I leave people alone to their religion.  After all, I don't appreciate being preached at.

So far as quoting the Bible goes, the convention is spell the book/number the chapter & verse:  Matt 5:17, for instance.

[Martin TK]

I agree with Thump, I typically allow people to have their own beliefs, so long as what they are saying isn't harming another, or they are not spouting things against homosexuals, atheists, and the likes.

I find that those with a little education in the bible, are by far the most annoying.  I was attacked recently on a religious forum by some guy who took some courses in biblical studies and claimed to have a Master's Degree in Biblical something or other.  I tend not to take these people very seriously, as they tend to take a very pious position and will resort to ad hominem arguments against anyone who doesn't agree with them.  Don't dare have an opinion with this type and not have a slew of "peer reviewed" references to quote, because they will, and if you don't accept their definition of peer reviewed, you are likely to be called stupid or uneducated.

Christians like that are more dangerous to me, than the average Christian, because these people have been convinced that the written arguments for their beliefs are the absolute evidence and ammunition to be used against those of us who disagree with the dogma of religion.  Another issue I have with this group is that of expectation, at least for me.  I am an educated man, and I have an expectation that educated people will THINK about what they read and look for the rational explainations within a text, or will see the obvious wrongs within.

I finally told the young man that he was right, that I was a complete idiot, that I would be heading to the University of South Carolina to return my three degrees from there, and quitting my position as a tenured professor, and look for a fry cook job in town.  And, please don't think I am belittling any jobs, I grew up on a farm, worked in nearly every field growing up, and have held many many manual labor jobs, I have a very healthy respect for hard work.  Peace.

[Daniel]

I guess the better question is, how do you deal with people who expect their views to go unchallenged when they influence everyone's life: abortion, marriage, war, prejudice, political leaders, violence, politics in general. Their beliefs don't stay with them alone; they tear at other people's freedom, choices and lives. How are others supposed to live comfortably if religious people's beliefs are a hot-button topic?

[Tank]

I guess the better question is, how do you deal with people who expect their views to go unchallenged when they influence everyone's life: abortion, marriage, war, prejudice, political leaders, violence, politics in general. Their beliefs don't stay with them alone; they tear at other people's freedom, choices and lives. How are others supposed to live comfortably if religious people's beliefs are a hot-button topic?

In the UK it feels like mainstream Christianity is slowly dying out as the old folks 'shuffle off this mortal coil'. It is becoming less and less meaningful to the general population. Evangelistic and Charismatic Christianity is holding on as it exploits mainly younger people and the disaffection of some people with mainstream society. The congregations of these Born Again Christian churches are often people from broken homes looking for some stability and community. Thus in the UK religion is not the problem it is in the US in terms of interfering with mainstream culture.  

However there is a problem with alienated 2nd generation Muslim boys. Their parents knew they are in a better place and lots came to the UK to get away from Muslim fanatics. A large number of Muslims in the UK are actually from a sect that is not considered Muslims by other Muslims they came here for safety! Trouble is their kids are neither fish-nor-fowl. They don't fit in with their parents, they don't fit in with mainstream UK culture. They are often viewed as 'little princes' in their own families too and this causes terrible issues when they find when trying to get a job that outside their own culture they appear arrogant little pricks. This leads to a number becoming radicalised and it is that minority that are highly vocal about religious issues.

[Martin TK]

I guess the better question is, how do you deal with people who expect their views to go unchallenged when they influence everyone's life: abortion, marriage, war, prejudice, political leaders, violence, politics in general. Their beliefs don't stay with them alone; they tear at other people's freedom, choices and lives. How are others supposed to live comfortably if religious people's beliefs are a hot-button topic?

In the UK it feels like mainstream Christianity is slowly dying out as the old folks 'shuffle off this mortal coil'. It is becoming less and less meaningful to the general population. Evangelistic and Charismatic Christianity is holding on as it exploits mainly younger people and the disaffection of some people with mainstream society. The congregations of these Born Again Christian churches are often people from broken homes looking for some stability and community. Thus in the UK religion is not the problem it is in the US in terms of interfering with mainstream culture.  

IF this were only True in America.  There was a generation, right after WWII, that I felt would allow religion to die down, then the generation after us Baby Boomers, has come along and bought back into a few of the Evangelical Fools and now we have things like the Tea Party whipping up the whole JESUS thing again, and dragging kids into it.  My own son, who was raised an atheist, married a Faith Head, and is now just following the hype to make her happy.. I just don't get it.. I don't.

[The Magic Pudding]

Some people when they hear grim predictions for Earth, through climate, population or resource depletion,
will say “I don't care, I'll be dead by then”.

Theists may think god will make everything OK, so why worry?
Just keep those cars and babies coming.
Only a godless communist would suggest controlling growth.

I do think about the future, not all the time.
I don't like to think if my children or their children survive, they will face a dystopian world.

I hadn't heard until recently a creationist view on how oil is created.
Some scientists when are asked, "will we be able to avert disaster," offer a shaky optimism.
This optimism may be more informed by hope than reason, they may have children to.

My view is religion is a threat to the survival of civilisation.
If things do go badly I'm sure religion will find a place in the dystopia it helped create.
My avatar will continue to frown.

[Byronazriel]

I don't believe that my gods will save us, I think that they would let us reap what we sow.

I think about the environment, and the future a lot. It breaks my heart to think about all the beautiful creatures and forests that are being whittled away by us.  

Remeber: Not all religion is fundamental Christianity!  

[notself]

Every religion on the planet has a fundamentalist side.  There has even been a big dust up between a Buddhist group in Australia and a Buddhist group in Thailand over the ordination of women.  The Thais didn't want to recognize the fully ordained women because of a bizarre reading of a technicality which flew in the face of the spirit of Buddhism.  Buddhism began with both men and women fully ordained monastics and teachers.  If gentle old Buddhism can cause fist fights, any religion can.  It is always the fundamentalists who want to control everyone else but themselves.

[Byronazriel]

As I have said many times in my life, everything has a darkside. Yes there will always be people who take things too seriously, or not seriously enough... However that should always be a reflection of the individual, not the orginization.

Generally, I stop taking things seriously when they have an "All blank/s are blank/s" basis.  

[GAYtheist]

My personal favorite are the one's who look at you like your a silly little boy/girl for not agreeing with them. I was actually challenged to bring as many books as I could to explain the theories I tried to explain. This was about a month or two ago. I brought a back-pack full of book on evolution, the universe, gravitational theory, and the like. They told me that theories are meaningless because they've not been proven, but so much in the bible had that it had to be true.

So...I asked them what would happen if someone came and said they were Jesus and that the end was nigh...they said they'd be put in the nut house...and when I asked why, and how they'd know he wasn't telling the truth, there was no response...I smiled, packed my books, and left...I love the looks I get from people like that...usually something like  

[SSY]

How about Matthew 28:18-20 which specifically require Christians to change other people's beliefs? Or Mark 16:15-16? Or any number of other Bible verses featuring God or Jesus telling Christians to change the opinions of people that don't affect them. The gaul of some people.

*gall, it's root is similar to causing lesions, chafes or irritations (as in a gall wasp, which causes tumour like growths on oak trees to lay it's eggs), gaul was the Roman name for France, homophones.

To contribute, when people accuse me of trying to convince others of my belief, I simply point out that I am entering into discussion for the fun of it, as much to examine my own ideas as theirs.

To steal something from someone on here though.

Beliefs inform actions, and actions have consequences

[Category]

How about Matthew 28:18-20 which specifically require Christians to change other people's beliefs? Or Mark 16:15-16? Or any number of other Bible verses featuring God or Jesus telling Christians to change the opinions of people that don't affect them. The gaul of some people.

*gall, it's root is similar to causing lesions, chafes or irritations (as in a gall wasp, which causes tumour like growths on oak trees to lay it's eggs), gaul was the Roman name for France, homophones.

To contribute, when people accuse me of trying to convince others of my belief, I simply point out that I am entering into discussion for the fun of it, as much to examine my own ideas as theirs.

To steal something from someone on here though.

Beliefs inform actions, and actions have consequences

Can't let you do that, Star Fox.

It's = contraction of it and is. Ex: It's hard to differentiate between "it's" and "its".
Its = Possessive form of it. Ex: Its coat is thick and shiny.

Sorry SSY, love your input but have to shove the grammar Nazis into their own oven every once in awhile. ;P

[Thumpalumpacus]

How about Matthew 28:18-20 which specifically require Christians to change other people's beliefs? Or Mark 16:15-16? Or any number of other Bible verses featuring God or Jesus telling Christians to change the opinions of people that don't affect them. The gaul of some people.

*gall, it's root is similar to causing lesions, chafes or irritations (as in a gall wasp, which causes tumour like growths on oak trees to lay it's eggs), gaul was the Roman name for France, homophones.

To contribute, when people accuse me of trying to convince others of my belief, I simply point out that I am entering into discussion for the fun of it, as much to examine my own ideas as theirs.

To steal something from someone on here though.

Beliefs inform actions, and actions have consequences

Can't let you do that, Star Fox.

It's = contraction of it and is. Ex: It's hard to differentiate between "it's" and "its".
Its = Possessive form of it. Ex: Its coat is thick and shiny.

Sorry SSY, love your input but have to shove the grammar Nazis into their own oven every once in awhile. ;P

In which case you should be aware that the possessive apostrophe is retained when the possessive is applied to a proper noun, rather than a simple pronoun.