Atheism, terrorism

[_7654_]

philosoraptor they did not follow the teachings of Islam
But Hitler and communism destroyed the world the teachings of atheism
This difference

I am sure that you are not old enough to have lived under a communist regime, or you are old enough, but did not live under a communist regime. And in both cases, you base your judgment upon what the "other" side have tried to pass as information to you. Always check both sides, before you pass judgment.

Ahh, Hitler... Hitler was a Catholic, just like the Pope :-)
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/quotes_hitler.html

[philosoraptor]

philosoraptor they did not follow the teachings of Islam
But Hitler and communism destroyed the world the teachings of atheism
This difference

I am sure that you are not old enough to have lived under a communist regime, or you are old enough, but did not live under a communist regime.

I'm not sure how you could have come to this conclusion based on the limited information moslim has provided.  I don't agree with the things he/she has to say, but your assertion is just as groundless as the one's being made about atheists.

[Heretical Rants]

I am sure that you are not old enough to have lived under a communist regime, or you are old enough, but did not live under a communist regime.

I'm not sure how you could have come to this conclusion based on the limited information moslim has provided. I don't agree with the things he/she has to say, but your assertion is just as groundless as the one's being made about atheists.

I dissagree.  If someone is stating that the motivation of certain acts commited by communist or fascist regimes is atheism, then it is perfectly reasonable to assume that they have not lived under any active communist regime.

Atheism isn't a motivation for anything.  It is neutral.

[_7654_]

philosoraptor they did not follow the teachings of Islam
But Hitler and communism destroyed the world the teachings of atheism
This difference

I am sure that you are not old enough to have lived under a communist regime, or you are old enough, but did not live under a communist regime.

I'm not sure how you could have come to this conclusion based on the limited information moslim has provided.  I don't agree with the things he/she has to say, but your assertion is just as groundless as the one's being made about atheists.

----

A communist regime would be a secular one, i understand that, but in nearly all cases, where there was a socialist or communist regime, religion fully survived, and was either utilized to exert control over the population, de fanged if it did have too much influence, or merely left alone. Look at Poland, a traditionally very religious country, still is, even the last pope was fron there, and yet it was quite the communist country... And i did not need moslim to provide me with any information. I have first hand personal experience

[Heretical Rants]

Atheism isn't a motivation for anything. It is neutral.

Except for riots.  We worship No One.  Insult Nobody, and we will get mad.


"There are no gods, therefore you must die!!!"
--A top clergyman of the atheist church

[i_am_i]

Atheist only be considered on the ethics of interest

Well in that case, Mo' Slim, first you're going to have to explain what you mean by the "ethics of interest."

I know, I know, your English is lousy, I mean let's face it, your English is terrible. This means, to me anyway, that you're coming in here half-cocked as we say. Another way of putting it is that you don't have your shit together. And I know you don't understand anything I just said.

Sell crazy somewhere else. You might start with those brothers you mentioned earlier.

[Will]

Jeez, what a mess.

Atheism means a disbelief in god or gods. It does not come with a set of ideologies or beliefs or even principles. It's only a disbelief in god or gods, the same way you, moslem, disbelieve in the existence of Zeus. You are an atheist when it comes to Zeus, and we are atheists when it comes to Allah, and all other gods. We just go one god further than you.

There's no evidence I can find anywhere suggesting that atheists have anything but a normal suicide rate. As an atheist, though, I don't feel restricted by religious dogma when it comes to suicide. Suicide, from my perspective, is not a sin. It can be very sad, of course, but ultimately a person's life is their own to do with as they so choose. I believe in personal liberty, though that philosophy is my own and doesn't necessarily share a causal link with my atheism.

Morality does not come from religion. I am irreligious, and I am moral, therefore morality does not come from religion. The source of morality is an interesting story. Are you familiar with the behavioral development of pre-humans? Paleontology, anthropology, evolutionary behaviorism and sociology? To make a very long story short, human beings and our ancestors have been a social species for millions of years. For millions of years, our ancestors needed to cooperate in order to survive. Those more capable of cooperating were more likely to survive than those unable to cooperate, which means their behavioral trans were passed along in the society and their genetics were passed on to the next generation. Morality is the rules by which humans can efficiently interact. Do not hurt other people without cause, do not steal, do not lie, consider what effect your words and actions will have on others, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.... think about those moral standards. All of them contribute to better societal cooperation, and thus survival.

I am unaware of any recent instances of terrorism carried out by atheists, but even if there were it would be difficult to demonstrate a causal link between the individual's atheism and their act of terrorism. Would you, moslem, blame Islam for 9/11? I wouldn't, at least not directly. While the men that hijacked the planes were all of the Muslim faith, and all of them were promised paradise for their hateful sacrifice, the truth is that their motivations were more complex than their faith. There were serious political powers at work, there were monetary concerns, there were also concerns with the history of the US exploiting the Middle East. When you combine these with a particular way of teaching Islam, you get insane men willing to do horrible things because they feel justified. Still, you cannot say they weren't Muslim. They were. They believe most of the same things all Muslims believe. To deny that is to lie about your own beliefs.

Atheist only be considered on the ethics of interest[/UOTE]
I've never seen it put quite that way, but I think I understand what you're suggesting. My response would be this: it's not as simple as you're making it out to be. Altruism, pure altruism, doesn't really exist. Regardless of what you do, there will always be some positive outcome to doing something selfless, even if it's just a sense of having done something good. Real life altruism is a bit different. The other day, I was in line at the market and I was buying several weeks worth of food. The person in line behind me had only one thing they were buying, so I offered to let that person go first. This is an act of real altruism. I recognized that, if the roles were reversed, I would certainly appreciate it if the person in front of me let me go ahead because I would be quicker. Recognizing that, I followed the golden rule. Why did I do it? Because society is a little better because of it. That's ultimately a bit selfish, though, because I'm hoping my society will be better to me. See?

No, Hitler was not using the ideas of Darwinism. Darwinism is natural selection, or selection which happens in nature without any interference. What Hitler was doing was the exact opposite: artificial selection, or selection which happens without nature and only by the hand of man. What Hitler did was the exact opposite of Darwinism.

I hope you can understand this.

[Tank]

Dretlin  Where From  morals??

http://www.iasp.info/pdf/papers/Bertolote.pdf
Put another link in my earlier intervention

The link you posted is very interesting.

[moslim]

karadan I do not agree with you the definitions of atheist


Dretlin Did Hitler go to church and preach the Christian religion

Give me the directory of the words and actions he is a Christian

Look here everyone
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/con ... 61/12/2303


Heretical Rants you afraid of the consequences only
Without consequences will kill me and Tsergni

KDbeads I have seen links
Search for a book of Daroyen to Hitler
Talk about the relationship between them in detail

_7654_ _7654_ Atheism was based on the theories fell and fell with

Give me evidence that God does not exist

[Dretlin]

karadan I do not agree with you the definitions of atheist

Dretlin you had to go to church you have been helped by Jesus when he fights another town

Proved to me that God does not exist

Agree or disagreeing with the definition does nothing to change it.

I need to help Jesus fight against the town next to me?

And prove to me it does - or the sugar palm fairy, prove that does not exist.

[moslim]

Dretlin I mean Hitler

[Kylyssa]

So, Moslim, you are saying that before you became a Muslim you were always fighting back a desire to kill, steal and rape?

People who are always fighting back an urge to kill, steal, rape, or harm others in any way and only refrain from doing so for fear of punishment are called sociopaths.  It isn't a normal  state of being either for religious people or non-religious people.  If your religion is necessary for you to not desire to harm others then you are in need of mental health care.  

You seriously feel nothing when someone gets hurt?  You really don't have any feelings of grief or empathy when you think about or hear about other people getting hurt?  Then, in your case, until you can get mental health care, please stick to your religious beliefs.

If the idea of hurting someone does not, on its own, make you feel ill, you are not well.  Please seek help.

[FTLebanon]

Dear moslim, I'm not going to repeat the explanations the others have given you because I believe they were enough to reply to your first post. However I am only going to add two points to the whole discussion:

1) The research you posted on suicide is an interesting one but I want you to consider the following. Even if there is somehow a correlation between the lack of belief and suicide (which I believe is absurd) it doesn't even support your statement that "atheism fell long ago" or that Atheists have shorter lives than believers. Also since you brought up the subject of suicide, I'd like to ask you: What about the Muslim fanatics who commit suicide by blowing up themselves and taking the lives of hundreds of innocent people so that they can enjoy 72 virgins in heaven (considering the number of young Jihadists, the 72 virgins could be all MALE by the way)? Who's putting the lives of others in danger, the atheist? Considering your previous replies, I'm sure you will respond by saying "well what about Hitler then?" which brings me to my second point.

2) I would like to recommend a book to you by John Gray, "Black Mass: Apocalyptic Religion and the Death of Utopia" which depicts the true motives behind Hitler's eugenics "experiments". As a Catholic, Hitler believed in the Apocalypse (that Christ will return to this world and destroy it and then judge everyone who has every lived). Also, antisemitism (hatred against Jews) was very common in Germany; many people believed that Jews are a lower race which needed to be either exterminated or converted into Christianity before the second coming of Christ. Hitler, being an antisemitic as well as psychopath, believed that it was his duty to remove Judaism from existence, and when he came to power, this was exactly what he tried to do.

[Whitney]

Either you're being obtuse, or you just don't understand because of language issues

Or he is trolling....

Most people who have chosen to learn English know it well enough to not seem crazy when they try to have a conversation in English.

[Albino_Raptor]

aslam alikom orhmt allah wabrkath (Peace, mercy and blessings of God)
       
I am a Muslim Arab
I want to put my point of view

Hello!

I think that atheism fell long ago

Meaningless. Atheism is a state of disbelief, not a monolithic system of beliefs. There's nothing to "fall".

Embrace of atheism often commit suicide does not live long

You've been lied to. The evidence suggests Atheists live to the same average age as believers.

Atheism has no morals morality derives from religion

You've been lied to again. Morality derives from the zeitgeist and is mutable despite religious texts, as can be seen by anyone who studies history.

Atheism, terrorism is trying to suppress religion and his followers killed without pity or mercy

Not sure what this means. So far, terrorists all seem to be believers of some stripe. Religion gets quite a free ride from even being criticized, never mind oppressed (Unless a majority religion is oppressing a minority religion.).

Hello.
I was about to annihilate your "argument" like the piece of blahblah hogwash it is, then I saw JillSwift already did post this, and now I don't have to any more. Woot.