Sex, moderation, and responsibility...what is appropriate?

[brainshmain]

the problem with gay unions is that they are not sexual. so how do gay people have intercourse? they can't. so you can't put gay unions on the same level as male-female unions. that's just the way things are, biologically speaking.

Oh, that is incredibly untrue.  Just because YOU don't consider gay sex to be sex doesn't mean you are right.  It just means you're a bigot.


Gay people can have intercourse, in a variety of ways.  Just a few:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strap-on_dildo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingering_%28sexual_act%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_sex
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_sex
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outercourse

I'd guess that the majority of gay couples have tried at least one of these, and that they probably have sex more than most straight couples.  Your weird inner-fear of those different from you doesn't validate the idea of them being undeserving of a legal marriage like any other human being.

[easytrak]

laetusatheos, do you really think it is possible to avoid the negative consequences of irresponsible sex?

as to things such as homosexual love, as i said before, the issue of homosexual relations is a tough moral dilemna. i can understand why you find it difficult to agree with me. and i guess i can sympathize somewhat with homosexuals, but i can never agree with non-sexual intercourse.

[donkeyhoty]

non-sexual intercourse

What's non-sexual intercourse?  Do you mean non-procreative intercourse?

What if you're a "good Christian" but also a premature ejaculator?  If you happen to ejaculate on your wife instead of in her is that a sinful spilling of seed?  Or is it excused because God made you a premature ejaculator?

Also, what about after menopause; Can you still bang your wife?  There's no chance of procreation.  Is there a verse you could point me to rule on this?

If semen is considered "sacred" how come unfertilized eggs are not?  Shouldn't a woman be getting pregnant as soon as possible after she pops out a kid until she's infertile.  Seems to be such a waste of good eggs.

What if your sperm count is low?  Is that less of a sin than someone with a higher sperm count?  And if it is, wouldn't one have to masturbate to find this info out?

[Whitney]

laetusatheos, do you really think it is possible to avoid the negative consequences of irresponsible sex?

That's a loaded question.  I never said it was possible to avoid the negative consequences of irresponsible sex. Would you like to rephrase?

[Huxley]

I think the hardest part is determining what we mean by 'Moderation'?  

I also consider 'temptation' to have connotations that are purely religious and by the way, when did it become the preserve of religion to direct our sexuality?

[Whitney]

I'm not sure if easytrak is coming back to continue the discussion.

[donkeyhoty]

I'm not sure if easytrak is coming back

That sucks, I really wanted to know if someone with a high sperm count is committing a greater sin than someone with a low sperm count.

[easytrak]

donkeyhoty, the main thing is that you have intercourse sexually. if you are sterile or have a low sperm count, well there's nothing you can do about that - you can't condemn a person for something that is not their fault. of course if they sterilized themselves it becomes a different story.

huxley, moderation is about recognizing things as they are and not trying to glorify them beyond their true worth. at any rate, you don't have to be a theist to recognize that things like adultery or unmarried mothers etc. are not good.

laetusatheos, by irresponsible sex, i mean seeking the pleasure but trying to remove the procreative and loving aspects of sex, in other words, trying to get nothing for nothing.

[easytrak]

sorry, i meant "something for nothing."

[Whitney]

laetusatheos, by irresponsible sex, i mean seeking the pleasure but trying to remove the procreative and loving aspects of sex, in other words, trying to get nothing for nothing.

How is getting something for nothing irresponsible?  Just because something is good doesn't mean it has to come with strings attached.

[donkeyhoty]

easytrak, you're not fully answering my question.  I'll will elucidate further for your edification(haha, that was pretentious)


If person A has a sperm count double of person B,
and they ejaculate an equal amount, during non-procreative sex(e.g. masturbation)
Would not person A be committing twice the sin of person B?

Person A is spilling more seed than person B,
and spilling of any seed is a sin,
consequently, wouldn't person A spilling more seed in one ejaculation be worse than one ejaculation of person B?

Person A was obviously given a gift of high sperm count by God, so he is wasting more of God's gift than low sperm count person B.  


Can this conundrum be resolved?  Or, is our current understanding of reproduction beyond what can be explained by religious texts?

[Squid]

Ejaculation has been shown to be beneficial in helping stave off prostate cancer:

high ejaculation frequency was related to decreased risk of total prostate cancer

Leitzmann, M., Platz, E., Stampfer, M., Willett, W. and Giovannucci, E. (2004). Ejaculation Frequency and Subsequent Risk of Prostate Cancer. Journal of the American Medical Association, 291, 1578-1586.

Ejaculatory frequency, especially in early adult life, is negatively associated with the risk of prostate cancer

Giles, G., Severi, G., English, D., McCredie, M., Borland, R., Boyle, P. et al. (2003). Sexual factors and prostate cancer. BJU International, 92, 211-216.

And we all know that even if you're married - you can be going a while without gettin' any - therefore rubbing one out may help keeping us guys from developing prostate cancer later in life.

[McQ]

Ejaculation has been shown to be beneficial in helping stave off prostate cancer:

high ejaculation frequency was related to decreased risk of total prostate cancer

Leitzmann, M., Platz, E., Stampfer, M., Willett, W. and Giovannucci, E. (2004). Ejaculation Frequency and Subsequent Risk of Prostate Cancer. Journal of the American Medical Association, 291, 1578-1586.

Ejaculatory frequency, especially in early adult life, is negatively associated with the risk of prostate cancer

Giles, G., Severi, G., English, D., McCredie, M., Borland, R., Boyle, P. et al. (2003). Sexual factors and prostate cancer. BJU International, 92, 211-216.

And we all know that even if you're married - you can be going a while without gettin' any - therefore rubbing one out may help keeping us guys from developing prostate cancer later in life.

However, as a public service announcement for the guys out there:

Please change hands once in a while and avoid the potential for serious repetitive stress injury.

[brainshmain]

donkeyhoty, the main thing is that you have intercourse sexually. if you are sterile or have a low sperm count, well there's nothing you can do about that - you can't condemn a person for something that is not their fault.

Oh you can't?  Well unless you actually believe that crap about homosexuals choosing to be gay, you are a serious hypocrite.  I mean really, who would actually make the conscious decision to have not be able to marry the person they love, inherit property, make medical decisions should their loved one become incapacitated, and have over 1000 other basic rights that gay couples are not allowed.  Not to mention the verbal and physical abuse they are subject to.  I mean, who wouldn't want to become the next Matthew Shepard?  He chose to be gay, so it's his fault he was murdered, right?  He could have just changed back to straight and those guys killing him would have probably taken him out for some beers.  Seriously.

[easytrak]

laetusatheos, wanting something for nothing is just plain selfishness. of course, i am also opposed to the puritanical idea that we should want nothing for something, i.e. that we shouldn't be pleasure-seekers at all, but rather work ourselves to death without any reward.

donkeyhoty, spilling seed is not a sin, but rather how it is spilt that is the issue. thanks for elucidating

squid, i am interested to know why that is the case.

brainshmain, you think that i have some personal grievances with homosexuals. its not as though i haven't had homosexual desires from time to time. in fact i think perhaps all of us have the capacity to become homosexual. what i am against is any sexual activity which is not done sexually and/or is without love.