an issue of great concern

[djneibarger]

The following link is one I think is of great importance to all political persuasions. It regards the aggressive, manipulative regulation of drugs, herbs, and supplements by the FDA on behalf of large pharmaceutical corporations. Please visit the following url and read this disturbing report for yourselves:

http://www.newstarget.com/021789.html

[donkeyhoty]

Didn't I see this somewhere already?

[djneibarger]

just so you all know, i didn't post this link with the intent of "spamming" as i was accused of on another "forum".
i sincerely disagree with some of the proposed actions listed in this legislation, but i totally agree with the opinion that the majority of the thousands of "dietary supplements" on the market are misrepresented and useless.
and in hindsight i might have been hasty to share a link that is possibly one-sided spin from an invested party.
i'm just concerned that, IF the information in this link is correct, this legislation is extreme overkill. banning massage oils and vegetable juice as "controlled substances" is going to far.
that said, i'll be more careful in the future about posting questionable information.

[Whitney]

I would only have considered it spam if it was your first post and you never came back.  "didn't I see this somewhere already?" probably came from your double post (the thread got submitted twice on accident) which I already fixed.

[djneibarger]

thanks!

[McQ]

I'm glad that the issue of whether or not dj was 'spamming' was cleared up, because I nearly accused him of it. Whenever I see 'look at me' posts without introductions, I get concerned, or when someone posts links to other sites, like their band, or their videos, etc. I wonder if it's going to end up just being a spammer.

dj did kindly post an intro here. Welcome to the site, dj. I can't say I loved the video, but you did put a bit of work into it and I applaud that.

[djneibarger]

thank you, McQ. and just so it's perfectly clear:
when i post a link to my music videos, i'm in no way whatsoever selling anything of any kind. i don't sell albums, or downloads, or memberships. my website doesn't have banners or pop-ups or ads.
i'm only trying to share the songs, art and videos that i write and record in my free time. i post them here because much of my material is atheist in nature.
if the admins of this forum see this as not appropriate for this site, please let me know and I will fully understand and comply.
and thanks again for the compliment, McQ!

[McQ]

thank you, McQ. and just so it's perfectly clear:
when i post a link to my music videos, i'm in no way whatsoever selling anything of any kind. i don't sell albums, or downloads, or memberships. my website doesn't have banners or pop-ups or ads.
i'm only trying to share the songs, art and videos that i write and record in my free time. i post them here because much of my material is atheist in nature.
if the admins of this forum see this as not appropriate for this site, please let me know and I will fully understand and comply.
and thanks again for the compliment, McQ!

No sweat, dj. One of the things I like about the forum is the sharing of information, links, etc. I just hadn't read the intros carefully and missed yours at first. I did my automatic, "Oh no, here we go again!" thing before noticing you were not simply dropping spam off in the forum. Totally my mistake, but I'm glad I caught it!

Oh, as the video goes, I'm just being an old fart (even though I'm not that old). Just not a 'metal' guy. I did, however, enjoy your art very much (on your site). Zombies Eating Breakfast, and Zombie Prom Night '88 in particular. Good stuff!

[djneibarger]

thank you very much, McQ! i understand about the whole forum thing, i should have worded my post a little better because looking back it did sound a bit like superficial spam, and i should have researched the info a bit more, as well. oh, well. live and learn.
thanks for checking out my videos! glad you liked the artwork  

[Whitney]

From the article, it seems the proposed changes are a bit overboard...are they seriously planning on only allowing those things on an Rx basis or are they planning on handeling them as over the counter drugs?  I actually wouldn't mind if many of the supplements that we can currently buy were regulated because many of the companies which produce them label the supplements falsely; in some cases they say it contains a certain herb yet testing shows it doesn't contain any of it.

[McQ]

OK, I'm no fan of the FDA, or of any big government agency. In fact, the FDA is on the bottom of the list, as far as I'm concerned. However, the article you've referenced here is so incredibly biased I don't even know where to start on it. It is hyperbole,  and crap all slung together, conspiracy-theory style.

The FDA/Big Pharma conspiracy? So laughable it doesn't merit serious comment.

It is really just a whining commentary by a seemingly disgruntled writer. Come on, there are plenty of public venues out there to air issues with the FDA, and by putting this information on their own website, they certainly weren't trying to "sneak this under the radar". Let's be at least a little bit fair here.

[djneibarger]

this particular article is definitely not to be trusted as an unbiased source of information. i should have stated in my original post that this was a "article of interest" rather than an "alarm bell", so to speak.
times like these i wish i had a "lexis-nexis" subscription to perform a more in depth research.

[Whitney]

Here's the original document (the one mentioned on the site in the OP):

http://www.fda.gov/OHRMS/DOCKETS/98fr/0 ... ld0001.pdf

Essentially what it seems to be saying is things which are not known to be safe or are not commonly known to produce a claimed result are subject to pre-approval before marketing to the public.  It also said that devices such as accupuncture needles will be subject to regulation but not the practice of accupunture.  Massage oils won't need to be pre-approved since it is cosmetic unless the use of the oil itself is intended to serve as a healing mechanism in which case it would no longer fall under what is considered cosmetic.

[McQ]

Here's a link to the author in the article, Mike Adams, who calls himself a Health Ranger. OK.

Can I be the Single Malt Whisky Ranger then?

His book looks to be very similar to another lying sack of shit, er...I mean author....Kevin Trudeau. Watch out for the evil BigPharma/FDA/Government conspiracy against "all natural" cures.

http://www.truthpublishing.com/naturalh ... t21391.htm

(sigh).

[skeptigirl]

There is a myth among many people who believe their "alternative medicine" is actually based on something the 'establishment' doesn't recognize, that 'Big Pharma' doesn't make dietary supplements, that 'Big Pharma' won't invest in research of these products because they are not 'patentable' but somehow if the research were done it would validate dietary supplement believers' convictions these products work. And I suppose along with the above fallacies is the belief among many supplement supporters that somehow, via the FDA, these competitors for Big Pharma's business will be stopped.

So let's look a little closer at these myths because they are myths.

Big Pharma companies make most if not all of the dietary supplements.

Look at the companies on this list that are designated as manufacturers. Tell me how these million and billion dollar companies differ from other Big Pharma companies?

Research dollars are not only available for profit purposes. There are a number of large charitable foundations that fund research. Their interests are in curing disease, not making a future for profit product.

There are also a number of naturopathic universities that engage in research in "alternative' medicines. Bastyr University near where I live is one such University.

So there is research on these products by which to judge their actual effectiveness and the research is not all controlled or censored by any evil corporations.

Is the FDA an evil government organization? Maybe George Bush has appointed someone recently that has more ties to industry than to the public interest. But I would point out that one of the top FDA officials resigned when Bush wanted the scientists to claim the science showed RU486 to be dangerous, which it wasn't. There are people with integrity that work in the FDA, the CDC, and the NIH. Bush maybe didn't have the best impact on the organizations, but he wasn't there 6 years ago and he won't be in two more. The FDA, CDC, and NIH are most of the time, working in the best interest of the public. A little political and big industry influence yes, a pawn of those two, definitely not.

Why is there a need to regulate these dietary supplements? Frankly, I'd like to know someone is policing the manufacturers to put 1 mg of melatonin in the pills I buy that are labeled 1 mg. Right now it is strictly voluntary that these big for profit companies actually have quality control on their products. You have to list ingredients. But in food, you only need to say what the package volume is. These supplements have fallen in between the cracks. They aren't a drug so fibbing about concentration on the label is not regulated.

And what about false advertising?

"Airborne, invented by a teacher"; "Headon, apply it to the forehead"; "Listerine kills germs that cause bad breath"

None of those products do diddly squat and neither do the ads and labels actually claim the products do anything either.

So what Airborne was invented by a teacher? Do they actually say it prevents a cold or makes one better? No, they want you to believe they are saying so but since there is no evidence Airborne does a thing, they cannot actually say it does. They have just launched a new product, Airborne for kids. These people are making millions. They have money for research. They spent that research money all right, on advertising research.

Headon, you really think it is for a headache? Find anywhere on the label it comes right out and clearly says putting this on your head is effective for a headache? Any medication you put on you skin affects about the first couple millimeters. (A pencil lead is about a millimeter wide.) Beyond that depth, the bloodstream carries the medication away. Know why people use nicotine patches? Because if you took the drug by mouth, you'd have to take 20 pills a day. You body gets rid of the nicotine too quickly to take it by mouth. Using a patch allows it to be absorbed slowly over time. Headon and all the other versions is no more than snake oil.

Listerine kills germs but it doesn't do that very well and killing germs in your mouth has zero effect on tooth decay or bad breath. Brushing and flossing to remove plaque is what stops bad breath and tooth decay. Next time you see a bottle of Listerine take a look at the ingredients. Alcohol is listed as an inactive ingredient! It doesn't even meet the basic level of an antiseptic because it isn't concentrated enough. And that's not even mentioning there are good germs in your mouth that compete with bad germs for space. Killing all germs willy nilly is actually a bad idea.

We need these products and their unscrupulous "Big Pharma" manufacturers to start being honest about what's in these supplements and what actual testing shows the products really do.