Creationism/Intelligent Design WTF?

[elliebean]

...once you become a believer you cease being a good person.

Not necessarily.

[pinkocommie]

For you to be a good person you don't have to believe but once you become a believer you cease being a good person.

Yeah, I just can't get on board with that logic.  Sounds an awful lot like the 'once you become an atheist you cease being a moral person' argument.  Realistically in day to day life, belief and non belief are simply differences of opinion.  I think that a of of believers don't think too much about why they believe or the extent that others use that unquestioned belief to their advantage and so inadvertently they end up supporting by proxy a lot of terrible shit, but doesn't make them bad people.  You might not want to hang out with them, and a lot of them can be pretty intense or jerky, but believer=cease being a good person?  Thaaaaats a little extreme for my taste.

[Sophus]

For you to be a good person you don't have to believe but once you become a believer you cease being a good person.

Yeah, I just can't get on board with that logic.  Sounds an awful lot like the 'once you become an atheist you cease being a moral person' argument.  Realistically in day to day life, belief and non belief are simply differences of opinion.  I think that a of of believers don't think too much about why they believe or the extent that others use that unquestioned belief to their advantage and so inadvertently they end up supporting by proxy a lot of terrible shit, but doesn't make them bad people.  You might not want to hang out with them, and a lot of them can be pretty intense or jerky, but believer=cease being a good person?  Thaaaaats a little extreme for my taste.

I second this. A lot of Christians I know are really more apatheistic as far as behavior goes. They aren't religious or judgemental, and are even quite liberal, not that you must be liberal to be a good person either.

[hvargas]

We need to define what the word " GOOD ". In every day used of it we can related to taste and that can become a matter of opinion, of the " likes and dislike ". We can then move to a dictionary definition and so on. When looking in terms of theology and others belief the word " Good " takes a different turn in its definitions. Are there " good christians or theist " the answer is NO when the word is taken into the realm of " BELIEVES " . What are they passing on from generations to generations is a crime towards human composition. This is not a half way thing but something complete. Atheist are also not being good in this definition cause they are let on by the only comparison that they can compare themselves to. You may say my parents were good parents and that can be true but it will not be true if their religious belief were passed on to you. It created a psychological profile along with many unconscious behaviours that made you the person that  you are today. You can denied it to yourself or you can accept it and investigate yourself or what I tell some " you need to re-educate yourself ". There's a lot of garbage that has been  passed on to you even if you call yourself an atheist or whatever you may define yourself as being. The Mind must be cleanse of all that has been injected not only through heredity but also through social upbringing and when you accomplished this you get to a place where you are able to see what has been kept from you. Still living in this world but no one can fool you and at that point there are no choices cause there's only one. This is where you are or become " A GOOD PERSON ". Once you choose in selecting the choices which the world is presenting you with it lures you into that blind world where it constantly reenforsces all that it has practice to keep you trapped. You choose to be an atheist and this is another choice that it allows you to select just like the theist. You think you have the true and therefore think it correct, while someone else finds that its false and therefore incorrect. For this reason the atheist does not know exactly why it does not believe and thus negates the rest of existences. Redefine your defintion of " GOOD " and redefine yourself as to how you fit in that definition.

[elliebean]

So, not only are my parents not good people, but because they're theists, neither am I. Great. You really know how to get people to want to know what the hell you're talking about so they can argue your point of view on it's merit, if it has any. Even the most strictly logically structured argument has room for tact, but you've offered us neither.

Btw, there's nothing wrong with my definition of "GOOD", tyvm. Perhaps some reevaluation is called for on your part.

[pinkocommie]

You may say my parents were good parents and that can be true but it will not be true if their religious belief were passed on to you. It created a psychological profile along with many unconscious behaviours that made you the person that  you are today. You can denied it to yourself or you can accept it and investigate yourself or what I tell some " you need to re-educate yourself ". There's a lot of garbage that has been  passed on to you even if you call yourself an atheist or whatever you may define yourself as being. The Mind must be cleanse of all that has been injected not only through heredity but also through social upbringing and when you accomplished this you get to a place where you are able to see what has been kept from you.

Sooo...what does it mean when I'm an atheist raised by atheists and I disagree with you?  Maybe you need to re-educate yourself...

[hvargas]

There are ways of knowings just what you really believe in or how strong you are in your believes. Let me asked you this question " do you believe that there had been " GREAT NATIONS " and " GREAT MEN/WOMEN " on PLANET EARTH ? The answer to this is a very BIG NO. Look into what all such great civilizations had done and what so called great men/women had really done.