fMRI - experimental proof of God's existence ?

[Qtipie]

Some days ago, I read a publication where the fMRI-technique was used to communicate with comatose patients and to read-out their thoughts (as published in the New England Journal of Medicine 2010 Feb 18; 362(7) : 579-89)

That is amazing, I thought. So now my question:

Assumed, that fMRI brain-readout will be further developed, so that the thoughts of dying moribund patients are displayed and recorded. Thus, one discoveres, that atheists as well as believers experience in their fMRI-scanned head a tribunal scene with a white-haired wrinkly in the middle, who is addressed with "God" and judges the delinquent and its life review is as it is for instance known from Near-Death-Experiences (NDE).

Also, one finds that dying patients, who previously confessed to be atheists, experience with statistical significance as last scene a hell-fire scene, whereas dying patients, who previously confessed being believers experience as last a paradise scene.

Assumed, there were sufficient large studies (with some 100 moribund patients) - would you consider that scenario as an "experimental fMRI proof of God's existence"?

Thank you for your time and consideration.

[Tanker]

Hi welcome to the foum, perhaps you could introduce yourself to the forum in the intro thread.

Whole lots of asumptions and untested perametrs to your expirement. So I would have to wait for further research before making an informed decision.

[Whitney]

IP match for memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=914

[G-Roll]

nothing in this article New England Journal of Medicine 2010 Feb 18; 362(7) : 579-89) mentioned nothing about anything remotely close to anything you mentioned. i must say im disappointed... i thought the article said that with the hell visions and heaven. that would have been a great read.

but, no i wouldnt call it proof of gods existence if somehow your speculation came true. it would be a further example of how religion is beaten into us all.
because people have religious thoughts or worries before they die doesnt make god real.

[Ellainix]

If people with absolutely no knowledge of Christianity or any ancestral roots in it all see the Christian interpretation of hell when they die, while at the same time most believers see the Christian heaven, then I think there would be a scientific basis to suspect a Christian God might exist.

However, that would not prove that a greater being isn't simply fucking with us.

[Whitney]

IP match for memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=914

OP claims account linked above is one which was forgotten about...one of the accounts will be deleted depending on which one the OP wants to keep.

[Whitney]

At most it would be proof that the dying brain acts out end of life hopes (heaven) and fears (hell).

We already know from NDE studies that those who do experience something religious tend to experience a vision that coincides with their personal beliefs.

[Faradaympp]

Okay assume that this technology gets perfected and we will be able to see a persons final thoughts, so? What will this show us, the probability of seeing anything ike a trial or a hell/paradise scene are minimal.

At most it would be proof that the dying brain acts out end of life hopes (heaven) and fears (hell).We already know from NDE studies that those who do experience something religious tend to experience a vision that coincides with their personal beliefs.

Another thing is that someone's final thoughts are still their thoughts, through a process called biofeedback people can learn the control active parts of their brain, there fore the scenarios you described could be fabricated by the person themselves. In the cae of a comatose patient who cannot control his thoughts in such a manner, the odds of him seeing one of the scenarios you mentionned are equally as high as him seeing a horde of mutant ants devouring the earth.

[Recusant]

...the fMRI-technique was used to communicate with comatose patients and to read-out their thoughts...

Interesting interpretation of the article.  Where do you get it from?  Maybe I missed something; can you quote the part that says the authors of the study could "read out" thoughts of the subjects? I see an attempt to establish a basic form of communication with comatose patients, nothing more.  That in itself will mean a lot, without any fantasies about reading of thoughts.  As G-Roll has already correctly pointed out, you've taken this far beyond anything the paper mentions.

 

url="//m.sc"]M.Sc[/url]., Martin R. Coleman, Ph.D.,
Melanie Boly, M.D., John D. Pickard, FRSC, FMedSci, Jean-Flory L. Tshibanda, M.D.,
Adrian M. Owen, Ph.D.‡, and Steven Laureys, M.D., Ph.D."]We used fMRI to assess each patient’s ability to generate willful, neuroanatomically specific, blood oxygenation level dependent responses during two established mental imagery tasks. A novel technique was then developed to establish whether such tasks could be used to communicate 'yes/no' answers to simple questions.

No reading of thoughts.  No Abrahamic religion-based images of judgment.  There's nothing stopping you from speculating about where this study might lead, but it remains speculation on your part only.

 If I have a dream of hell, does that mean I've been there?  Why would what takes place in the mind of a comatose individual have any more relation to reality than my dream?


Anyone interested can read the entire paper at the links below:

Goo gle Docs HTML version of the paper.

PDF of the paper.

I've read the paper, and it's indeed fascinating.  It seems to show that in some cases (5 out of 54 in the study) in which a person is judged to be in a "vegetative state," there appears to be some consciousness still present. Thank you for sharing it here.

[strikemedown]

I had a dream about taking Liz Hurley to the Oscars and Catherine Zeta Jones had a catfight with her over who got to be with me, but that's never going to happen. If I was laid up in a hospital bed, surrounded by sick and injured people, chances are good that I would be thinking about life and death etc. and chances are also good that my mind would conjure up stereo-typical images like heaven and hell, as drummed into us by society and media etc.  
Furthermore I would like to know how your "God" who supposedley loves everyone - would bannish a soul to hell for eternity simple because they fail to believe?
(After-all it's God's fault that I am an atheist {it's his fault for not existing})