Climate Change (AKA Global Warming)

[Sophus]

What? Still no topic on this?

Of all the stupid things for politicians to oppose this issue has got to be the most dangerous... if it's true. From what I hear there are some meteorologists who oppose it (although I suspect they are politically motivated). I want to cut away from all the biased crap and rubbish in the media. What are the leading experts saying on the matter? What is the most persuasive evidence of Global Warming? Anybody know of the most credible sources on the matter?

[Will]

The problem, as always, is that someone decides to take a scientific issue and throw it into the arena of politics. What started out as worrying trends in global climate ended up with a very stupid label of "global warming"â€"an insanely horrible oversimplification and misrepresentation of what's really going onâ€"which is then spoon fed from one side, the left, with no real scientific arguments, which triggers the right to go on the offensive because god forbid (can I use that on an atheist forum?) the other side ever be right about anything. Now it's this big stupid mess where the right is screaming that there's no consensus and pressuring scientists to back up their bull crap denial while the left moves center on the issue because that's what they do in the US.

Global climate fluctuations caused both directly and indirectly by things like the industrial revolution and burning of fossil fuels and domestication of animals is here. We're at 390 ppm of CO2, which is above the 350 ppm that's supposed to be our ceiling, and there's about a 30 year lag time on the effects of greenhouse gases. It would seem that, when we really, honestly ask the scientists and experts, there's a consensus. Unfortunately, this is lost in the noise of the politically framed debate between pundits and curiously well funded think tanks and politicians.

Gavin Schmidt (climatologist at NASA's Goddard Institute) and Joshua Wolfe (photographer) authored a book, Climate Change: Picturing the Science, recently which has photograph after photograph of the effects of climate change. It's probably the strongest and most breathtaking evidence you can present to people. I strongly recommend checking it out at your local public library if you can.

[Tom62]

What I don't like about this "global warming" thing is that it has been taken out of the scientific community, moved into political area and mutated into a kind of religion. When I saw the documentary "An inconvenient truth", I was shocked about the Doomsday scenario that Al Gore presented us. So, I  went on a search to figure out the truth behind the "Inconvenient truth". What I found out was that most of the claims in the documentary had been debunked over and over again by many meteorologists, who were not willing to give up their scientific integrity. That some of their arguments have been debunked by meteorologists, who happen to believe in the global warming, only shows me that 1. there is no mutual consensus among meteorologists about "global warming" and 2. we are not able [yet] to create accurate computer models to predict climate changes and what causes them.

[zandurian]

Yes, the current debate is weird as hell - very hard to figure out who's correct. I've heard scientists on both sides lecture on this. The best I can tell is - yes, C02 levels are up but it is not known with certainty whether humans play a significant part in that buildup or whether it's just a naturally occurring cycle/process or what the long term effects are, correct?

Ditto that politics driving this is issue is TOTAL BS!!! An independent counsel of scientists needs to inform the politicians what is certain and what's not. If man is causing an unnatural climate shift then we are all going to be paying through the nose to stop it which is fine - IF.

[OldGit]

I'm not sure about this.  The scientists are divided, and not a few think it's bunkum.  Meanwhile the public has been whipped into a frenzy by the media and, as Tom said, it's mutated into a kind of religion.
I've seen these panics before, seen them come and go.  Not too long ago we were worried about global cooling.
However it seems to me that we need to behave as if it's true.  Not only on the precautionary principle - the stakes are pretty high - but because we need to stop squandering our precious resources.
There are so many things for which our limited and insecure oil supply is really vital, yet we burn it as if there were no tomorrow.  Burning coal pollutes the air, and we still haven't decided how to dispose of our nuclear waste.
So when I turn on my lights I really don't know whether I will warm the planet via the CO2 I'm indirectly producing, but I do expect that my grandchildren will suffer for lack of the resources I'm squandering now.

[Sheeplauncher]

I don't know... i would call myself a skeptic on this topic. Globaling warming is potentially a problem but is blown way out of proportion by people not even in the scientific community. Many do not speak out because people will simply call them stupid etc just like the red scare where people who questioned things were deemed commies or after 911 when people who questions bush were un-american. I just want the debate to be civil and weigh the possibilities so we can get sensible solutions. Here are some skeptics: http://www.cato.org/special/climatechan ... rsion.html

[AlP]

We were talking about this at work today actually. One of the guys showed me this magazine ad from 1962. How things have changed.



It's kind of ironic I think.

It seems only fair to link the post it's from. The blog post is not necessarily representative of my opinion.

[Sophus]

Thanks for the input everyone.

While I don't doubt the climate is changing I just don't know if we're responsible for it. Although the logic seems almost too simple that if CO2 is being trapped in the atmosphere and we're putting out CO2, then, uhh.....

[prestonwatson]

Hi Sophus,
First of all thanks to you for providing two links on global warming. As far as science is concern and if the topic is global warming, it always fascinates me. You are looking for some deep information on global warming. Few months before I received a document on my e-mail regarding the global warming. Let me try to find it out as it is no longer in my in-box. If I find it, I will share on this forum. Thanks,

[zandurian]

Did ya'll hear that Obama is skipping Copenhagen?

http://blametheotherguy.blogspot.com/20 ... imate.html

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/ ... openhagen/

Here is some info from MMCC skeptics:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -data.html

Emails hacked showing the numbers have been 'messaged'. Looks like a lot of massaging is going on  both ways and that's what all the confusion is about?

Also this:

http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/ ... paper.html

and:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125686509223717691.html

[Sophus]

I also find it interesting that the Bush administration came around on the issue.

Hi Sophus,
First of all thanks to you for providing two links on global warming. As far as science is concern and if the topic is global warming, it always fascinates me. You are looking for some deep information on global warming. Few months before I received a document on my e-mail regarding the global warming. Let me try to find it out as it is no longer in my in-box. If I find it, I will share on this forum. Thanks,

Thanks! Look forward to it.

[McQ]

Another source is the CFL System Study. I know Doug Barbour, and have spoken with him at length about this. Hoping to get aboard the Amundsen someday for a looksie and to volunteer to help with a little primary research. Information on it here:

Doug Barbour's photo site (Doug is the brother of lead researcher Dave Barbour, and is himself, a professional photographer, hence my connection to Doug).

http://dougbarberphotography.com/index.html

And link to the CFL System Study site. Be sure to check out the book preview "Two Ways of Knowing". It's awesome. I just bought a couple of the books for our high school (friend is an Earth Science teacher there), and myself. The things that these folks worked so hard to get accomplished are amazing!

http://ipy-cfl.ca/index.html

I'm also going to see if our high school will pony up the money to participate in their "Schools on Board" program. We'll see.

[zandurian]

realclimate.org's response to the CRU email hack:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar ... -cru-hack/

Some hacked emails published (from a AGW skeptic's view)
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot. ... -scam.html

[Sophus]

Out of curiosity: how do scientists claim to know the temperatures from hundreds as well as thousands of years ago?  

[karadan]

Out of curiosity: how do scientists claim to know the temperatures from hundreds as well as thousands of years ago?  

Studies of strata, maybe? I could be wrong though. I'm not a geologist.

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Everyone wants to continue their way of life and keep procreating. As long as this trend continues, we're fucked. I get frustrated when i hear the media trying to create an argument against global warming as if there is something there to argue about in the first place.

Any biologist worth their salt will have cultured bacteria on a petri dish in agar. They will also have seen how a culture begins exponential growth, experiences a lag phase, then dies out as the resources dwindle. The ever-increasing levels of toxin created by their own waste, finite resources and the limited space in which to live cements their eventual downfall. Human population growth is identical to this process, just a little bigger. We are currently on the upward exponential growth phase. Our population has yet to stabilise. It is up to us to stabilise it artificially or let our environment do it for us.
It is amazing the amount of experiments which can be performed in a lab which mimick macro events on the micro scale. These tried-and-tested methods give us understanding of complex processes and help us predict future trends. Scientists have been out there for decades predicting this stuff and entire governments have been ignoring it wholesale.

It's not just global warming. I could literally give thousands of examples of how humans are steadily decreasing their own ability to survive on the planet but i can't be arsed. It's late. What i will say, though, is that all minor environmental effects are cumulative. A good example would be the Aral sea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea
The fallout from this disaster only goes to prove how fragile ecological systems are and how dependent humans are on it.

I don't think this situation terrifies people enough.