Proof for an Intelligent Creator and His purpose

[andersbranderud]

According to science our universe has a beginning (search at “age of the universe” on www.pnas.org) and time is purely physical. Therefore there can be no such thing as time external to the physical universe. Timespace has a beginning.

It is a fundamental law of physics (causality) that every physical occurrence in the universe has a cause.
The fundamental laws of physics then require a cause of the universe ex nihilo (since timespace has a beginning); i.e., a Prime Cause Singularity that is non-dimensional and independent of timespace.

To conclude the above paragraphs:
Fact: No thing nor event in the known universe or laws of physics lacks a cause.
Assume: There is no Prime Cause (Creator / Singularity).
Ergo: There is no universe.
Fact: There is a universe.
Therefore: the statement that was assumed is proven to be a false statement by reduction ad absurdum (proof by disproof).
(Since "There is no Creator" is proven false, the opposite is true: There is a Creator.)

Being logically consistent (orderly), our (to say perfectly-orderly would be a tautology) orderly universe must mirror its Prime Cause / Singularity-Creatorâ€"Who must be Orderly; i.e. Perfect. An orderlyâ€""not capricious," as Einstein put itâ€"Creator (also implying Just), therefore, necessarily had an Intelligent Purpose in creating this universe and us within it and, being Just and Orderly, necessarily placed an explanation, a "Life's Instruction Manual," within the reach of His subjectsâ€"humankind.

It defies the orderliness (logic / mathematics) of both the universe and Perfection of its Creator to assert that humanity was (contrary to His Tor•âh′ , see below) without any means of rapproachment until millennia after the first couple in recorded history as well as millennia after Abraham, Moses and the prophets. Therefore, the Creator's "Life's Instruction Manual" has been available to man at least since the beginning of recorded history. The only enduring document of this kind is the Tor•âh′ â€"which, interestingly, translates to "Instruction" (not "law" as popularly alleged). (Source and further reading of how to relate to the Creator:www.netzarim.co.il)

The fact that the Creator is perfect implies that He isn’t self-contradictory. Therefore any religion, and all religions contradicts each other (otherwise they would be identical), that contradicts Torah is the antithesis to the Creator.

(Common counter arguments are answered here: bloganders.blogspot.com )

Anders Branderud

[iNow]

Oh dear.  Wow.  Check your facts.  

According to science our universe has a beginning (search at “age of the universe” on http://www.pnas.org)

No, in fact, that's not true.  While we can use PNAS data to calculate the age of the current expansion, most current work is showing that this is merely a "bounce," and that the big bang is not a beginning.  The BB is shown to be a singularity merely because that's where our math and models breakdown, NOT because that was the start of the universe.  This topic is being heavily researched, and you should look into the work being done with Loop Quantum Gravity which is helping us to clarify our understanding of the areas where the current models result in infinities and singularities.

and time is purely physical.

This is another rather questionable assumption, as time is not something which has a particle carrier, or an energy, or any other such thing.  Your statement is equivalent to saying that "up" and "down" and "left" and "right" are purely physical.  It's meaningless, and your assertion is ABSOLUTELY not something posited as true "according the science."

Therefore there can be no such thing as time external to the physical universe. Timespace has a beginning.

As shown, your premises were false, and hence so too is this conclusion grounded in them.

It is a fundamental law of physics (causality) that every physical occurrence in the universe has a cause.

This, too, is plainly false.  There is no such fundamental law of causality in physics.  You think otherwise?  Awesome, prove me wrong by citing the exact law.  Then, when you're done, please explain to me particle/antiparticle pairs spontaneously popping into and out of existence as demonstrated with quantum mechanics, and explain how this uncaused phenomenon fits into your [strike:3iqh9re7]made-up[/strike:3iqh9re7] yet to be demonstrated "fundamental law of causality."

The fundamental laws of physics then require a cause of the universe ex nihilo (since timespace has a beginning); i.e., a Prime Cause Singularity that is non-dimensional and independent of timespace.

Since this is yet another conclusion grounded in false premises, it can itself be readily dismissed.

To conclude the above paragraphs:
Fact: No thing nor event in the known universe or laws of physics lacks a cause.

Nope, not a fact.  All it takes is one single example to show this assertion false.  I've provided that above with my mention of spontaneous particle/antiparticle pair production.

Assume: There is no Prime Cause (Creator / Singularity).
Ergo: There is no universe.

Well, I do assume there is no creator in much the same way that I assume there is no easter bunny and there is no tooth fairy, however, you have not demonstrated that the only way the universe could exist is to have a creator.  Ergo, even if we assume the lack of a creator we can see other explanations for the universe not grounded in such a baseless assumption...  such as is being demonstrated by the work being done right now in LQG.  

In short, your conclusion does not follow your assumption, and the assumption itself is falwed.  There are other possibilities describing the universes existence besides just a creator, and the elimination of a creator from that set of possibilities does not negate the possibility of the universe existing.

Fact: There is a universe.
Therefore: the statement that was assumed is proven to be a false statement by reduction ad absurdum (proof by disproof).
(Since "There is no Creator" is proven false, the opposite is true: There is a Creator.)

Wow, you need to educate yourself on basic logic and proofs.  You have NOT proven that the statement "there is no creator" is false.  Would you like to take another swing at it?  You've wiffed a bit on that first pitch.

Being logically consistent (orderly), our (to say perfectly-orderly would be a tautology) orderly universe must mirror its Prime Cause / Singularity-Creatorâ€"Who must be Orderly; i.e. Perfect. An orderlyâ€""not capricious,"

Interesting.  Yet more baseless assertions.  You're building castles made of sand, and you may as well be asserting that the farts of purple unicorns cause erections in leprechauns.  That has the same validity as what you've just put forth.


It never ceases to amaze me what kind of mental gymnastics it takes to actually accept such ridiculous nonsense, and how flawed is the logic of those arguing in its favor.

[Kylyssa]

The fact that the Creator is perfect implies that He isn’t self-contradictory. Therefore any religion, and all religions contradicts each other (otherwise they would be identical), that contradicts Torah is the antithesis to the Creator.

If this is true please explain why the Torah itself contains self-contradictory portions and portions which are in contradiction with reality.

[Tinyal]

Bah, yet another close-minded christian-is-the-one-true-religion zealot   posting on boards to get 'college' credit at one of those religious institutions of lower learning....

We keep asking - and they keep providing - the same old tired arguments that either: 1.  Have been refuted literally millions of times over centuries, or 2. are based on  faulty premises, poor logic - or both.

I myself see no reason to ask posters 'to provide proof'  their particualr version of Sky Daddy is true, or to engage with them seriously , since not one has come up with anything worth considering.

Yet - they still try to baffle us with their BS.  I guess they assume if they repeat themselves often enough, we'll just give in and say 'why, of course <insert dogmatic BS here> is true, how did I not see it before!!'

I  so much want to think that people - all people - are capable of thinking rationally, but it appears that a significant portion - even <sigh> a majority -  of the human race is somehow .....different.....or incapable....or unwilling.

Just gets depressing if I think of it too much.

[Will]

I think this individual is jewish, actually.

[Chimera]

Yeah, his worldview is posted as "Orthodox Judaism"...?

[John09]

Being logically consistent (orderly), our (to say perfectly-orderly would be a tautology) orderly universe must mirror its Prime Cause / Singularity-Creatorâ€"Who must be Orderly; i.e. Perfect.

If our universe mirrors its Prime Cause (creator), then that Cause must have some deadly bacteria and viruses, murderous intentions, and poverty.

An orderlyâ€""not capricious," as Einstein put itâ€"Creator (also implying Just), therefore, necessarily had an Intelligent Purpose in creating this universe and us within it and, being Just and Orderly, necessarily placed an explanation, a "Life's Instruction Manual," within the reach of His subjectsâ€"humankind.

The Intelligent Purpose must have included violence and disease. Otherwise, the intelligent purpose has been thwarted. Also, the Instruction Manual is full of errors which any basic science can prove.

The fact that the Creator is perfect implies that He isn’t self-contradictory.

No, the Creator only contradicts his own morals. He commands not to murder and then commands to murder.

Next...

[SSY]

To conclude the above paragraphs:
Fact: No thing nor event in the known universe or laws of physics lacks a cause.
Assume: There is no Prime Cause (Creator / Singularity).
Ergo: There is no universe.
Fact: There is a universe.
Therefore: the statement that was assumed is proven to be a false statement by reduction ad absurdum (proof by disproof).
(Since "There is no Creator" is proven false, the opposite is true: There is a Creator.)

Wow, this is really something.

You seem to have read a pamphlet on syllogistic logic, well done, maybe try learning a bit harder next time. You are right in saying that the the conclusion "there is no universe" is false, this means the argument is unsound, this can have two causes. The argument may be of an invalid form, or the premises may be untrue. The assumed premise of "there is no creator" is one possible premise that could be false, or the other assumed premise "No thing nor event in the known universe or laws of physics lacks a cause" could also be false. Your attempt to pass of the causality premise as a certainty is disingenuous. How can you demonstrate that it is in fact the creator not existing premise that is false, and not the causality premise?

Bear in mind, to say there is no genie under a rock, you have to turn over every rock in the universe to be sure of this fact.