Atheist Church

[Whitney]

A side note.  I freaking hate A/N.  The format sux, but on top of that the atheists I've encountered there are not my type of atheists.  They seem to not care that fundies keep trying (and have on occasion) to pass unconstitutional laws (for us in the states) trying to put their religion into our politics.  These people are the type who would go to the Atheist Church to make theists more comfortable with us.  I got into it with a few people and just said screw this I want to converse with atheists who have brains, so here I am lol it was freaking terrible.  I was told everything would be better if atheism was a religion so the bs/unconstitutional laws that occur would not affect us.  I got so pissed I decided that I was talking to an atheist Ray Comfort and just left.  I don't know if I mentioned on another post when i've ranted about A/N that I feel Atheist Churches are counter productive at clearing up misconceptions about atheists.  But thats a discussion for another thread ^_^

I thought I'd go ahead and start a topic for the above since I'm curious as to what the people at A/N said and if they were associated with NTCOF or just liked the idea of an atheist church.  This is in the religion section because I didn't think it fit in the laid back lounge or philosophy..and it has the word church in the title.

I can see how you would find atheist churches to be counter productive to clearing up misconceptions about atheists.  In fact, many people who attend NTCOF would prefer it not have church in the title.  However, by using the word church we are forcing the government to grant the same tax benefits to free thinkers (it's really not an atheist church, it's for skeptics and that includes more than just atheists) that religious people are allowed.  So, in that way, it promotes the cause of rationalists by forcing the government to treat us equally.   It also serves the community purpose that many who have left a religion tend to miss, however that could be filled just as easily by the same sort of meeting called something else.

[AlP]

However, by using the word church we are forcing the government to grant the same tax benefits to free thinkers (it's really not an atheist church, it's for skeptics and that includes more than just atheists) that religious people are allowed.

Out of interest, what tax benefits do churches get that regular charitable organisations get? Couldn't this kind of organisation be a charity?

[Whitney]

However, by using the word church we are forcing the government to grant the same tax benefits to free thinkers (it's really not an atheist church, it's for skeptics and that includes more than just atheists) that religious people are allowed.

Out of interest, what tax benefits do churches get that regular charitable organisations get? Couldn't this kind of organisation be a charity?

I don't know...I'll have to ask and/or research it.  It's just my understanding that there is some sort of difference.  If there weren't a difference, then why would churches not be considered charities and just get rid of the church tax status?

[AlP]

However, by using the word church we are forcing the government to grant the same tax benefits to free thinkers (it's really not an atheist church, it's for skeptics and that includes more than just atheists) that religious people are allowed.

Out of interest, what tax benefits do churches get that regular charitable organisations get? Couldn't this kind of organisation be a charity?

I don't know...I'll have to ask and/or research it.  It's just my understanding that there is some sort of difference.  If there weren't a difference, then why would churches not be considered charities and just get rid of the church tax status?

That's a good question and I'd love to know the answer =). I wouldn't bet on charity versus church status being entirely rational though!

Edit:
Found this. The links on the page are also interesting. It seems these might be appropriate "exempt purposes" as an alternative to church status for such an organisation:

advancement of education or science
eliminating prejudice and discrimination
defending human and civil rights secured by law
educational

[LoneMateria]

The big thing with me is the title Church.  I guess you can't get tax exempt benefits as a social club which is what I suspect the "Church" is.  I looked at the link AlP gave and I know some churches violate those conditions.  From what I've heard Mormons are big violators of it.

I'm against the whole join them to get the benefits thing.  I think we are focusing in the wrong area.  Instead of trying to get ourselves added to their benefits we should work on removing the benefits of the violators.  Our government could probably pull themselves out of debt if we taxed the churches, hell they could probably pull themselves out if they taxed just the churches who threaten our politicians.  Obviously theres the whole separation of church and state thing which i'm positive religious groups will use their selective memory will try to use against us.  

A note it would be very nice to tax the fuck out of Pat Robertsons.  

Back on subject.  Using the title Church for a tax break feels like were using the system, and that doesn't sit right with me.  When we use this guise we are also spreading misinformation.  "Atheism is a religion look they have churches and their views are as dogmatic as the rest" says the preachers.  Atheism can be much more easily dismissed like one religion always does to another.  We just worship evolution or Hitler or whatever the preachers feel like claiming, and no one will give it thought.  Those of us who don't attend the "church" will get caught in the crossfire of dogma and misinformation.  

Now you said skeptics church for yourself.  Skeptic doesn't necessarily imply atheism though the two words are often connected.  This is still a social club, if you want one make it, don't make it under a guise or a false pretense.  If we work to punish violators of our laws, and correct the injustices we won't need any deceptions.