Health and Social Darwinism (Split Topic)

[Kylyssa]

Haha, I love science but I honestly think the world would be better off without medicine.

In the evolutionary sense, the strong will survive and multiply. The weak will die. Unfortunately in this society, the strong are taxed and the weak receive welfare. People who make no contribution to society, people who are a negative force in this world live fine. And they breed like rats. An upper class family has one or two children while a fat slut on welfare has 6. Those 6 will all have vermin of their own.

That became a rant but I feel animals like bears and wolves are better than a growing amount of people

I've noticed that it's usually only religious people with Social Darwinist beliefs.  Most humanists I know seem to appreciate the value of human life without putting people into categories such as rich and useful or poor and deserving of death.  It will be interesting to see how you react when you eventually get sick.  Will you let yourself die or will you seek medical assistance?  

Were you aware that even the self-righteous get sick?  Were you aware that even though you are now wealthy a single catastrophic illness or accident could take it from you?  Would you then give up and die because if you were sick and poor because of it and it would make you vermin?

I take it you have no appreciation for people like Stephen Hawking since his physical ailments obviously make him inferior in your mind.  It's unsurprising that you are religious.  

The reason rich people breed less (on average) is education.  The answer is not killing off the poor and sick but educating them.  Education will also eventually cure them of religion as well.  Curing them of religion will also limit population growth.

[Brizz]

1. Haha, how could an accident take away my money? Give me an example.
2. If I had a fatal illness I would not give up. I would probably write a book and then jump out of an airplane without a parachute.

3. Are you serious? Stephen Hawking has done more for society than most people. Obviously he would be (and is) celebrated.
4. As most people become less religious the truly religious will go overboard and fight much harder.

[Tanker]

Haha, I love science but I honestly think the world would be better off without medicine.

In the evolutionary sense, the strong will survive and multiply. The weak will die. Unfortunately in this society, the strong are taxed and the weak receive welfare. People who make no contribution to society, people who are a negative force in this world live fine. And they breed like rats. An upper class family has one or two children while a fat slut on welfare has 6. Those 6 will all have vermin of their own.

That became a rant but I feel animals like bears and wolves are better than a growing amount of people

Wow, that is probably one of the least budhist, which you claim you wee, or Taoist, which you claim you arethings I've ever heard. What part of this matches Three Jewels of the Tao: compassion, moderation, and humility.

It seems like you claim taoism because you believe you need religion but like so many theists you don't even follow the tenants of your own religion. When I read your original post I hae hopes that like many following an atheistic religion you would be a fairly open mined sort, but I was wrong. You are ignorant and hatefull. I wouldn't be totaly surprisd if you claimed taoism for the "cool factor" rather then it speaking to you as a way of life (while I have no proof of that other then your obvious not following of your own religion).

[Heretical Rants]

Haha, I love science but I honestly think the world would be better off without medicine.

In the evolutionary sense, the strong will survive and multiply. The weak will die. Unfortunately in this society, the strong are taxed and the weak receive welfare. People who make no contribution to society, people who are a negative force in this world live fine. And they breed like rats. An upper class family has one or two children while a fat slut on welfare has 6. Those 6 will all have vermin of their own.

That became a rant but I feel animals like bears and wolves are better than a growing amount of people

There are indeed too many people of the world, but now that we've changed the way we live, it's only natural that we change the way we evolve.

In poor countries, the people capable of obtaining medical care survive, in poorer countries the people capable of obtaining food and water survive, in socialist countries the heartless parasites survive, and in rich countries the people capable of staying out of car accidents survive.

I think it's particularly stupid that we give lots of money to people who have lots of kids, thus encouraging people to have lots of kids if they're on welfare, but after we get finished wrecking the planet an entirely different group of people will do well.

[Brizz]

Let me describe vermin: Someone who will never be of benefit to society in any way.

THAT is who I dislike. If someone can support themselves economically they are a benefit to society (Tax base) and are therefore totally cool with me.

[Brizz]

Wow, that is probably one of the least budhist, which you claim you wee, or Taoist, which you claim you arethings I've ever heard. What part of this matches Three Jewels of the Tao: compassion, moderation, and humility.

It seems like you claim taoism because you believe you need religion but like so many theists you don't even follow the tenants of your own religion. When I read your original post I hae hopes that like many following an atheistic religion you would be a fairly open mined sort, but I was wrong. You are ignorant and hatefull. I wouldn't be totaly surprisd if you claimed taoism for the "cool factor" rather then it speaking to you as a way of life (while I have no proof of that other then your obvious not following of your own religion).

I am one of the most open minded people you will ever meet.  And I'm not taoist...I'm pagan. I feel very connected to nature and I just assumed that was a Taoist thing. My bad, ignore it.

[Brizz]

In poor countries, the people capable of obtaining medical care survive, in poorer countries the people capable of obtaining food and water survive, in socialist countries the heartless parasites survive, and in rich countries the people capable of staying out of car accidents survive.

I think it's particularly stupid that we give lots of money to people who have lots of kids, thus encouraging people to have lots of kids if they're on welfare, but after we get finished wrecking the planet an entirely different group of people will do well.

That's what I'm saying!!

[Heretical Rants]

That's what I'm saying!!

Yeah, and this is what I'm saying:

Now that we've changed the way we live, it's only natural that we change the way we evolve.

[Whitney]

Let me describe vermin: Someone who will never be of benefit to society in any way.

THAT is who I dislike. If someone can support themselves economically they are a benefit to society (Tax base) and are therefore totally cool with me.

eh...someone's gotta collect our trash and do other jobs those with more money don't want to do.  I doubt there are many people who really are of zero benefit to society.  Many of these necessity jobs don't pay that well either forcing many to work two jobs just to make a halfway decent living...it's no wonder some people have to seek long term government support; society puts them in that position by allowing them to be paid crap.

[Kylyssa]

1. Haha, how could an accident take away my money? Give me an example.

You get in an accident and become disabled as a result.  Your insurance stops covering you as even the "good" insurance has a cap of around $70,000 to $100,000 no matter how much or how long you've paid into it.  Your medical bills go over $100,000 - let's say you are in a burn trauma unit, so they go far over $100,000.  In fact, they go over a million dollars in almost no time.  The money you had in savings is all gone.  Your house is gone.  Meanwhile, you are no longer working so you file for Disability.  Since you are grossly injured you get it right away - about six months after you have gone through all your savings.  The problem is that you went through all your savings right away paying your hospital bills.  

Though you are now permanently disabled and disfigured you are out of the hospital in two months.  You would go back to work but you no longer have fingers and scar tissue prevents you from lifting or carrying.  So your friends let you couch surf a little, maybe for a month or so.  Now, three months stretch out ahead of you with no income and no savings left and you have overstayed your welcome with friends.

This isn't a wild scenario.  I know a person who went through a similar experience.

Then there's my situation, the one that makes it so you figure I should die.

I worked as a high design florist and ran a small marine aquaculture business out of my home as well as making a few hundred bucks a month from my writing.  My personal income was only between $40,000 and $55,000 per year so not rich but certainly not poor.

I was injured - a concussion and a broken hand.  These injuries apparently set off my lupus and fibromyalgia.  Lupus is an autoimmune disease, not a character flaw.  Testing showed I had a brain tumor as well.  I also have these daily fevers which go up around 104-105 a few times a week for which a reason was never found.

So I became too ill to work.  I lose consciousness without warning sometimes, I have seizures, and when my fever gets high I become delirious as well.  There's also the chronic pain and weakness but they didn't stop me from working on their own.  

Eventually I lost my job and insurance.  I figured I was fine, I had my savings to last until I got better and could work again and I still had great insurance.

For over a year I saw doctors who were at best not trying very hard and at worst couldn't read my history and prescribed harmful medications.  A year of "the best medical care in the world" and I was still sick, even more sick than I started out.  A lot of it probably had to do with the fact that waits to see specialists like neurologists and rheumatologists are several months in America so I only got a few several minute visits with each.

So, when my savings ran out, I applied for Disability.  I'm in appeals because SSI figures a person can work just fine while delirious, vomiting, seizing, or unconscious - actually, they took none of that into account, they just evaluated me on the basis of my fibro and my mental state.  I guess in your book I was supposed to jump out of a plane without a parachute before this.

So I get by on my writing income alone and I'm really, really poor.  I have never bred and never will.  That option was taken away from me by a guy with a dirty hunting knife about twenty years ago.  Besides which, I used birth control all those years I didn't realize I was infertile.  So, because I haven't made vermin, just like me and useless, does that mean I deserve to exist in your eyes?

You think Stephen Hawking deserves to live - but is it only because he is brilliant and eloquent?  So if he'd been an average guy with the same illness he'd have been useless vermin?

[Brizz]

I'm okay with disability. Government can take my tax dollars for that. That disability is not your fault.

I am talking almost exclusively about WELFARE. Where you have the ability to work but choose not to. They can say "There's no jobs out there"....but there are. I have 3  jobs in this economic recession. Why? Because I like money.

Imagine someone has never worked a day in their life, lives off YOUR money, and then has 6 more kids who do the EXACT SAME THING.  But you don't need your imagination, there are tons in your city, and in EVERY city.

[Ninteen45]

(I'm waiting for the regulars to start with the converting to atheism stuff, seriously, every new religious member gets themselves ripped to sheds by those guys after posting once! Jeez!)

So atheists try to get everyone to think like them? To adhere to their system of beliefs? How...familiar

I don't know where Ninteen45 got that comment from...the only people who get ripped are the trolls.

I love pulling your leg.

It's so easy!

And In the disability thing.... My uncle got Accidentallt run down with a steamroller. He got put in disability for being unable to walk much, a paragraph in the news and help with spotting a fatal flaw in an entire set of Steamrollers from an assemby line! (something to do with a faulty brake pin that breaks...)

[Heretical Rants]

I'm okay with disability.

There ya go.

[Reginus]

Brizz, ever read The Grapes of Wrath? If not, than you can read a summary here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grapes_of_Wrath

Its a very good book, and goes to show that a lot of the time, the people who work the hardest are actualy the poorest in society.

[Thom Phelps]

eh...someone's gotta collect our trash and do other jobs those with more money don't want to do.  I doubt there are many people who really are of zero benefit to society.  Many of these necessity jobs don't pay that well either forcing many to work two jobs just to make a halfway decent living...it's no wonder some people have to seek long term government support; society puts them in that position by allowing them to be paid crap.

Hawking bless you, Whitney.  

Brizz, consider me a ditch digger. I'm a good ditch digger and work hard, seven days a week. I get married and have a child. What's wrong with the government (society as a whole) recognizing that I need help on a ditch-digger's income for some essentials, like cheese and butter (which are already subsidized industries), medical care and diapers?