save your self

[omdatov]

Hello,i regester in this forum for a simple purpose  saving a big number of people from their darkness , for me i can't speak english very well but i'm ready to receive any question,disagree...i want just that we use the gift of our god "the mind" and evaluate problem with an objective point of view and we will see who is walking in the darkness and who is walking in the brightness ,first before any thing i advise all atheists to read the holy quran i'm sure many of you don't know what's the quran ,ok i will explain it later but i can say that's the "life of hearts" due to quran many atheists,crisitiens,   
jewish (uses their mind) enter to the exact religion "the ISLAM" for a sample reason that the quran is the "word of god" and they say that "we didn't find any contradictions when we read the quran it's not word of human" but people who read bibel or any celestial book says that they are full of contradictions because man interfer in them and they are corrupted but the quran god say that he will preserve it.So it's a challange not only to atheist but all people in the hole world to find  one contradiction only one contradiction in the quran , i swear that you will not find be sure. After this long introduction i will explain more the quran (i find a good explanation in a web site),then i will give you the quran :

For those new to the Quran, the word Quran (kurr-'aan) itself means recitation. The Quran is the last revelation to humanity and has been unchanged since it was sent down to the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, in the 7th century. The Quran's 114 chapters (Surahs) and 6236 verses (Ayahs) are the source of every Muslim's faith and practice.

The Quran has had such a powerful effect on all those who have read its words; From  Umar ibn al-Khattab, one of the greatest enemies and persecutors of Islam, who read the first 14 verses of Surah Ta-Ha and was so struck by them, he not only became Muslim, but also one of Islam's strongest champions; To German born convert  Muhammad Asad who early this century described the Quran as "the ultimate manifestation of God's grace to man, the ultimate wisdom, and the ultimate beauty of expression: in short, the word of God."

    One thing to note is that this is the English translation of the meaning of the Quran , not the Quran itself. The Quran is in its original, pristine Arabic as it was revealed from Allah (the word for God in Arabic). Someone new to these verses may not fully understand the verses and may take them out of context. One must look into all the verses in relation to each other and the Sunnah and Hadith (example and traditions of the prophet (s)), the context of revelation, Tafsir (commentaries), the original lexical Arabic and scholarly understanding to fully interpret the Quran's meaning.

    ==> Please look to the attachement you will find the holy quran with english translation (i cant upload only 19 chapters ) if someone is interesting he can send to me his mail i will send to him the rest of chapters,an arabic audio recitation of some chapters of quran with ".mp3 & rm" and commentaries of these chapters to make them more clear ( with english translation)

[curiosityandthecat]

[joeactor]

Now Curio - be nice...

Our new blind friend thinks that we're in the darkness.

Sad, actually.

omdatov I think you'll find that very few here will take you seriously if your goal is to convert us.

How about a nice conversation?

Are you open to the possibility that you may be wrong?

... and why aren't you worshiping Odin instead?

Welcome!,
JoeActor

[curiosityandthecat]

Joe:

i regester in this forum for a simple purpose saving a big number of people from their darkness

Just pointing out that someone seems to have signed up for no other purpose than to evangelize.   If he wants to chat, that's great, but doesn't look that way.

Incidentally, the web site the text is taken from is here.

[joeactor]

Incidentally, the web site the text is taken from is here.

Blasphemy!

...er...

I mean...

Plagiarism!

Yeah, I'll be surprised if they come back, but ya never know...

[omdatov]

I expect these types of replies, but i'm so surprised for the first reply of "curiosityandthecat" , i understand from these replies that you are at the right way, good can any atheist convince me why he choose this way, ok for me i'm sure that he can't for a sample reason because all atheist they can't convaince even them selves  and we have a proverb here that says " the poor can't give" . For me i'm sure that  i'm in the right way and i'm ready for any conversation ,sorry a "civilized conversation" not like these weak replies specially the first one...OK

[Thom Phelps]

omdatov,
The Qur'an, The Bible, The Torah, et cetera are all written by people to explain the unexplainable (of their times), to lay down basic rules of society, and ultimately to control people through fear. If Allah had a message to share in 610 A.D. with the world, why would he tell some guy meditating in a cave instead of speaking to the whole world at once? And why would the message take so many years for Mohammed to "formulate?"

Makes no sense and the fakeness of it is too obvious.

Normally, I would say, "Good luck in your endeavors," but with regard to missionaries like you, I hope your attempts to convert people to your cult fails.

[Tanker]

I expect these types of replies, but i'm so surprised for the first reply of "curiosityandthecat" , i understand from these replies that you are at the right way, good can any atheist convince me why he choose this way, ok for me i'm sure that he can't for a sample reason because all atheist they can't convaince even them selves  and we have a proverb here that says " the poor can't give" . For me i'm sure that  i'm in the right way and i'm ready for any conversation ,sorry a "civilized conversation" not like these weak replies specially the first one...OK

He was corrected by a moderator immediatly after his post so don't worry about it, and as he pointd out in his second response you have stated that you come he to evangilise or in other words preach and attempt to convert us which is against the forum rules. You can have an open conversation and free discourse but you can NOT evangilise here.

[Whitney]

You can a open conversation and free discourse but you can NOT evangilise here.

That is correct..preaching is against the rules.  

So, omdatov, what do you want to discuss?  Shall we start with why plagiarism is immoral (and also against the rules of this forum)?

[Tom62]

The phrase

"Someone new to these verses may not fully understand the verses and may take them out of context."

also sounds very familiar. It is the same phrase used by Christian apologists, who will tell you as well that what you read is not really what you read.

So, if I read the following verse from "The Cow" in the Quran

2:104 O ye who believe, say not (unto the Prophet): "Listen to us" but say "Look upon us," and be ye listeners. For disbelievers is a painful doom.

It really means that there will be no real doom for unbelievers, because Allah is merciful?

The Quran is the unchanged last revelation to humanity and the source of every Muslim's faith and practice

If that is the case then why are there different groups of Muslims; who follow different interpretations of the Quran and who are even willing to kill their own Muslim (brothers) for their Muslim faith? Logically speaking this means for me that, if Allah/God didn't get the message across properly the first (Tora) and the second (Bible) time; he also failed miserably the third (Quran) time.

[Karras]

For me i'm sure that  i'm in the right way and i'm ready for any conversation ,sorry a "civilized conversation" not like these weak replies specially the first one...OK

I like civilized conversations. How about a civilized conversation about the alleged age of Aisha, when Mo consumated their marriage? Maybe next we can have a civilized conversation about the alleged number of men and boys killed, who were taken prisoner at Qurayza?

Civilized conversations are great, don't you think?

[omdatov]

Hello, ok right now there are 8 replies but any atheist can explain why he choose this faith . let make it more easier can any atheist give me one justification that god didn't exist.
About the questions of Thom Phelpes the answer is: In the Quran god says to us that he sent many prophets and messengers ,the number of prophets is 124000 and the number of messengers is 314, ok the difference between prophet and messeger that the Messenger is one who is sent to a disbelieving people, and the Prophet is one who is sent to a believing people with the sharee'ah of the Messenger who came before him, to teach them and judge between them, as Allaah(god) says (interpretation of the meaning):

"Verily, We did send down the Tawraat (Torah) [to Moosa (Moses)], therein was guidance and light, by which the Prophets, who submitted themselves to Allaah's Will, judged for the Jews" [al-Maa'idah 5:44] here you have the name of some prophet and messenger:
Arabic Name>>>>>>>English Name
Adam
Idris >>> Enoch Approx. 1600-1800 after advent of Adam.
Nuh >>> Noah Approx. 1600 years after advent of Adam.

Hud >>>>>Eber Approx. 2900 years after advent of Adam.
Salih >>>>Methuselah Approx. 3000 years after advent of Adam.
Ibrahim >>>>Abraham Approx 3400 years after advent of Adam.
Isma'il >>>>>Ishmael Approx 3400-3500 years after advent oAdam.
Ishak >>>>>Isaac Approx 3400-3500 years after advent of Adam.
Yaqub >>>>>Jacob Approx 3500-3600 years after advent of Adam.
Lut >>>>>>>Lot Approx. 3400 years after advent of Adam.
Shuaib >>>>> Jethro Approx. 3900 years after advent of Adam.
Yusuf >>>>>>Joseph Approx. 3600-3700 years after advent of Adam.
Ayub>>>>>>>Job Approx. 3800 years after advent of Adam.
Dhul-Kifl>>>>>>Ezekiel
Yunus >>>>>>Jonah Approx. 3800 years after advent of Adam.
Musa & Harun>>>>>Moses & Aaron Approx. 4000 years after advent of Adam.
Hizqueel >>>>>>>Ezekiel Approx. 4800 years after advent of Adam.
Elisha >>>>>>>>>Elyas Approx. 4500 years after advent of Adam.
Shammil>>>>>>>>Samuel Approx. 4250 years after advent of Adam.
Dawud>>>>>>>>>David Approx. 4300 years after advent of Adam.
Daniel>>>>>>>>>Daniel Approx. 4800 years after advent of Adam
Uzair>>>>>>>>>>Ezra Approx. 4850 years after advent of Adam.
Zechariah>>>>>>>Zakariya Approx 5400 years after advent of Adam
Yahya>>>>>>>>>John Approx. 5400 years after advent of Adam.
Isa>>>>>>>>>>>Jesus Approx. 5400 years after advent of Adam
Mohammed>>>>>Approx. 6000 years after advent of Adam
all these messengers and prophets  sent to their  own nations and their celestial books such as (Bibel , Tora ,Zabour...) were corrupted and distorted by people to make these books similar to their attitudes ,whims and instincts, as allah says: "30. The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah.s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! 31. They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah. there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)".(30-31 Repentance) but the last messenger&prophet is Mohammad, peace be upon him, was sent to the hole world ( human beeing and The Jinn (Sprites)) and one of the miracle of the Quran that anyone in the world can corrupt him because allah took the responsibility of keeping the Quran safe,and in the history many peoples try to corrupt the Quran ,they even try to add or remove a  one letter but all their attemps go in vain,also the holly Quran is valid in all places and all times and many scientific facts proved in last and in this centry exits in the Quran wich was sent down to the Prophet Muhammad(who can't  write or read), peace be upon him, 1400 years ago.(The Quran is truly a living miracle. Going deeper into it, one finds amazing characteristics from every perspective and i'm ready to give you more and more if you want) .
==>i'm not converting your faith but you ask your self is your faith is true and be so objective.
About the 2 question the Quran is sent down in 22 years and it's a total wisdom of Allah because if it's sent down in 1 time people will refuse it specially in islamic laws for example in drinking alcohol, the quran didn't borbid it in the first step because people in Madinah are accustemed to drink a lot of alcohol so if the quran forbid drinking the majority of people will not accept this so in the first step the Quran forbid that they make prayer in drinking status and in second steps forbid drinking and there are many other examples ,that's called "graduation in tachrie".
i hope that i answer your questions and i'm ready for others.

[Whitney]

Atheist isn't a faith as it does not involve belief in something without proof.

[Sophus]

I don't think I would need to be saved from an all-powerful being who loves me to no end, but thanks.

[omdatov]

ok,Karras my only request be objective u will reach the truth, be sure that the truth is very close to you.
for Aicha,may Allah be pleased with her,and his mariage,i didn't understand your question very well but i will try to answer:
Let's discuss the age of Aisha being 9 when she married our Prophet in Islam!
First of all, it is important to know:
Aisha's parents were the ones who married her to our Prophet, and that no Muslim or even pagan objected to the marriage because it was widely practiced.  And even until today in 3rd world countries (Muslims and non-Muslims), little girls as young as 9 or 10 do get married.  Anyway, the reason no one objected was to the Prophet's marriage was:
1-People used to have very short life-spans in Arabia.   They used to live between 40 to 60 years maximum.  So it was only normal and natural for girls to be married off at ages 9 or 10 or similar.
2-Marriage for young girls was widely practiced among Arabs back then, and even today in many third-world non-Muslim and Muslim countries.
did you see the picture of a 9-year old girl giving birth in Thailand,also there is 12-year old in Romania getting married...
Child brides as young as 8 (eight) were common among the Byzantine emperors and nobility!The article specifically says they were common and not exceptions!
It is important to know that girls during the Biblical and Islamic days used to be married off at young ages when they either had their first periods, or their breasts start showing off.  In other words, when they turn into "women", then they get married off.  It was quite different for men on the other hand, because physical power and the ability of living an independent life had always been and will always be a mandatory requirement for men to have in life.  So men waited much longer than women in terms of getting married.  The guy had to develop both his body and mind before he was ready for marriage.

That is why you see girls as young as 9 or 10 were married to men as old as 30 or even older.  The culture back then and in many third world countries today (NON-MUSLIM ONES TOO) is quite different than what you live in today.
Prophet Muhammad's marriage with Aisha was 100% legal and acceptable by all laws and Divine Religions!

==>So to call Prophet Muhammad a pedophile for marrying a girl that was OFFERED TO HIM by her parents and was accepted by all of the people back then including the enemies of Islam, the pagans, is quite absurd.

about the second question i can't write all the story :
The Jews of Bani Kurayzah live in the suburbs of the city was between them and the Prophet, peace be upon him, a promise that they don't help his enemy,in the battle of Elkandak were one of the tribes hostile to the city wich called Banu Nadir who expelled the prophet, peace be upon him, them from the Madinah,so there were a conversation between "Hayiy Bin Akhtab" (the leader of Banu Nadir) and Banu Kurayzah who want them to break the era(promise) between them and Mohammad, peace be upon him,and help them to colonize the Madinah,Mohammad , peace be upon him,hear about this    
conspiracy and you can continue...