Which is more important to you: Love or Truth?

[johnny]

1)Say a person saved your life or that of your spouse or child;was a generally nice,pleasent and harmless person and did lots of helpful things/donated money to help the environment,the homeless,developing nations and the community but that person just happened to believe in fairies and unicorns and flying mushrooms and had no desire to convert anyone else to these beliefs. Would you,in the interests of truth, try to convince the person that the beliefs which they hold are preposterous even to the point of mocking the person or would you consider the person so nice and harmless that you would allow them to go on believing whatever makes them happy?

2)If you had a choice between living in a world without love or a world without truth, which would you pick?

[joeactor]

Point 1)
As long as their belief wasn't interfering with the lives of others, or their own happiness, I wouldn't care.  Everyone must find truth in their own time, and their own way.

Point 2)
Can you have truth without love?
Sure.

Can you have love without truth?
Not in my opinion.

You've only given us one world to choose from.

I for one don't like these "artificial scenario" questions (ie. you're in a ship wreck and can only save your mother or your wife).

Call me when something like this actually happens - or matters.

Just my 2 cents,
  JoeActor

[ImpaledSkier]

ditto.

[johnny]

Point 1)



Can you have love without truth?
Not in my opinion.

  JoeActor

What you can have is love in a world without truth, for example, in an illusory world you can love an illusion,you can love someone based upon deception, a lonely person could convince themselves to love a virtual person. The love in your heart may be true but the object of your love
may be a lie,the love that they say they have for you may be a lie. A person who has feelings of love towards god is having genuine feelings of love towards an illusion.

[donkeyhoty]

Point 1)  If I wasn't planning on having a relationship(platonic or sexual) with the person, or even socializing with said savior or life then no I wouldn't belittle their insanity.

But, If some relationship were to progress it wouldn't last long if the savior persisted in their flying mushroom worship.  Stupidity is stupidity regardless of how well meaning or nice that person may be.  Yes, I would discourage this person, as any person I would have a relationship with(besides family) from their delusion.  If they continued in this delusion I would continually lose respect for them or anything they said until none remained.

Point 2) Already live in a world lacking both.

[joeactor]

What you can have is love in a world without truth, for example, in an illusory world you can love an illusion,you can love someone based upon deception, a lonely person could convince themselves to love a virtual person. The love in your heart may be true but the object of your love
may be a lie,the love that they say they have for you may be a lie. A person who has feelings of love towards god is having genuine feelings of love towards an illusion.

Dancing... Head of a Pin... Angels...

Riiiiiiigggghhhhttttt... Sorry, I just don't see it.

An isolated occurrence of this in a world where truth exists - sure, happens all the time.  It's called "self-delusion", or in extreme cases schizophrenia.

But an entire world without truth???
Nope.  I can't see that at all.  How would such a world function?  Just on a day-to-day business way, a zero-truth world would only work if everybody knew that everyone was lying about everything...  Make sense?  Well, not to me!

Un-possible!

If you come up with a realistic scenario, we can continue this discussion.  If not, I'm through.

So let it be written, so let it be done,
  JoeActor

[johnny]

Alright,maybe not a world without truth but one realistic scenario I can think of for love existing without truth is: Two people meeting on an internet forum or chatroom who lie completely about every aspect of themselves and even post fake photographs of themselves and then fall in love with each other, anyway,since when did love become entirely rational,love is only chemical reactions and electrical signals in the brain and thus love could be artificially stimulated which makes love something independent of truth in my opinion.

[johnny]

Point 1)  If I wasn't planning on having a relationship(platonic or sexual) with the person, or even socializing with said savior or life then no I wouldn't belittle their insanity.

But, If some relationship were to progress it wouldn't last long if the savior persisted in their flying mushroom worship.  Stupidity is stupidity regardless of how well meaning or nice that person may be.  Yes, I would discourage this person, as any person I would have a relationship with(besides family) from their delusion.  If they continued in this delusion I would continually lose respect for them or anything they said until none remained.

I don't think I could do that because there are so many pretty girls who read horoscopes or have alternative medical treatments like accupuncture and aslong as they didn't go on about them endlessly it wouldn't bother me.

[donkeyhoty]

I don't think I could do that because there are so many pretty girls who read horoscopes or have alternative medical treatments like accupuncture and aslong as they didn't go on about them endlessly it wouldn't bother me.

First, I wouldn't consider accupuncture delusional.  I don't know enough about it, but I do know it's not complete bull like horoscopes.

Second, just because you want to bang someone doesn't mean you want a relationship with them or even have to respect them.  Case in point, Erika Christensen, I'd bang her, but I certainly wouldn't want to talk to her about Scientology afterwards(or anything for that matter).   And if you have a lot of relationships with pieces of ass that you don't respect I feel sorry for you.

[johnny]

I don't think I could do that because there are so many pretty girls who read horoscopes or have alternative medical treatments like accupuncture and aslong as they didn't go on about them endlessly it wouldn't bother me.

First, I wouldn't consider accupuncture delusional.  I don't know enough about it, but I do know it's not complete bull like horoscopes.

Second, just because you want to bang someone doesn't mean you want a relationship with them or even have to respect them.  Case in point, Erika Christensen, I'd bang her, but I certainly wouldn't want to talk to her about Scientology afterwards(or anything for that matter).   And if you have a lot of relationships with pieces of ass that you don't respect I feel sorry for you.

"Pieces of ass"? I feel sorry for you donkeyhoty because you've just admitted that you don't respect all women,including the ones you just want to have sex with. I only want to have sex with Alysson Hannigan and yet I still respect her because shes a human being. Why should intelligence have any effect upon wether I respect someone, I respect people with mental disabilities because they are human beings and thus have a right to my respect.

[donkeyhoty]

yes, that's exactly what I did(see quote below), and interjecting mental disability into the debate is laughable.
 
And, is patronizing not disrepect?  i.e. Ignoring the fact that you think the person you are in a relationship with is delusional, "pretty girls who read horoscopes or have alternative medical treatments like accupuncture and aslong as they didn't go on about them endlessly it wouldn't bother me."  Yes, just because they are pretty you may excuse their delusion.

[johnny]

Yes that is what you did say and what I didn't say.

"I'd bang her, but I certainly wouldn't want to talk to her about Scientology afterwards(or anything for that matter). "

^You do know that this is the 21st century,don't you?


"And, is patronizing not disrepect? i.e. Ignoring the fact that you think the person you are in a relationship with is delusional, "pretty girls who read horoscopes or have alternative medical treatments like accupuncture and aslong as they didn't go on about them endlessly it wouldn't bother me." Yes, just because they are pretty you may excuse their delusion".  

Nope. Because their pretty it makes their delusion more bearable but what right have I got to tell them what they should and should not believe in,they're adults and its their life and their brain and they can fill it with whatever nonsense they want - it is not patronizing to 'excuse' something which is none of my business - I think that horoscopes are rubbish but I wouldn't have a right not to excuse her,I
wouldn't have a right to say "your a moron because you believe in horoscopes" anymore than I would have a right to say "your a moron because you watch reality TV" - all I could do is give my opinion that
horoscopes are rubbish and because I respect her I would respect her right to take or leave my opinion. Besides they say opposites attract, why would I want every woman I to agree with me and think as I think, how boring would that be and her kooky beliefs may even add to her charm,add colour to her personality.

[donkeyhoty]

First of all it would be you're a moron, and yes you do have the right to tell someone, "you're a moron" if they watch reality tv or read horoscopes.

Is showing up the only criteria you have for respecting someone? "they are human beings and thus have a right to my respect", so Hitler, Pol Pot, Jim Jones, Richard Nixon, Stalin, etc. deserve respect because they are human.  That's delusional.

What is also delusional is this statement,

Because their pretty it makes their delusion more bearable but what right have I got to tell them what they should and should not believe in,they're adults and its their life and their brain and they can fill it with whatever nonsense they want - it is not patronizing to 'excuse' something which is none of my buisness

It is extremely patronizing to excuse something because of looks.

Moreover, do you not understand sarcasm or hyperbole in pointing out the fallacy of your contentions?

[johnny]

First of all it would be you're a moron, and yes you do have the right to tell someone, "you're a moron" if they watch reality tv or read horoscopes.

Is showing up the only criteria you have for respecting someone? "they are human beings and thus have a right to my respect", so Hitler, Pol Pot, Jim Jones, Richard Nixon, Stalin, etc. deserve respect because they are human.  That's delusional.

What is also delusional is this statement,

Because their pretty it makes their delusion more bearable but what right have I got to tell them what they should and should not believe in,they're adults and its their life and their brain and they can fill it with whatever nonsense they want - it is not patronizing to 'excuse' something which is none of my buisness

It is extremely patronizing to excuse something because of looks.

Moreover, do you not understand sarcasm or hyperbole in pointing out the fallacy of your contentions?

If I didn't respect a mass murderer because they were a human being then I would be behaving just like them, its the fact that I do respect human beings, ALL human beings,that seperates me from them and the fact that you do not respect all human beings worries me greatly.

Furthermore I personally don't believe that I have a right to call someone a Moron because of their beliefs,unless those beliefs are seriously harmful to themselves or to others.

When you do sarcasm on a forum you should really use emmoticons, otherwise it is perfectly normal for people to misunderstand you.

Finally,to comment upon a point which you made in an earlier post, accupuncture is nothing more than the placebo effect, so would I be right in calling you a moron for believing that there is anything more in it than astrology.

[donkeyhoty]

If I didn't respect a mass murderer because they were a human being then I would be behaving just like them, its the fact that I do respect human beings, ALL human beings,that seperates me from them and the fact that you do not respect all human beings worries me greatly.

It worries me greatly that you have respect for despicable people simply because they are human.  There is no reason to respect someone simply for being alive, they need to demonstrate that they are deserving of respect.  The difference that you are missing is that I have respect for ALL people until they prove otherwise, so no respect from me for GW Bush, Hitler, Stalin, etc.

Every woman is a piece of ass - SARCASM
Every sexual encounter and relationship should involve mutual respect and love - SARCASM

According to the NIH Consensus Statement on Acupuncture, there have been many studies on acupuncture's potential usefulness, but results have been mixed because of complexities with study design and size, as well as difficulties with choosing and using placebos or sham acupuncture. However, promising results have emerged, showing efficacy of acupuncture, for example, in adult postoperative and chemotherapy nausea and vomiting and in postoperative dental pain. There are other situations--such as addiction, stroke rehabilitation, headache, menstrual cramps, tennis elbow, fibromyalgia, myofascial pain, osteoarthritis, low-back pain, carpal tunnel syndrome, and asthma--in which acupuncture may be useful as an adjunct treatment or an acceptable alternative or be included in a comprehensive management program. An NCCAM-funded study recently showed that acupuncture provides pain relief, improves function for people with osteoarthritis of the knee, and serves as an effective complement to standard care.7 Further research is likely to uncover additional areas where acupuncture interventions will be useful.

Even poor, and mixed results for accupuncture are better than the completely useless application of horoscopes and astrology.  
Since you respect ALL humans, you would be wrong in calling me a moron both for saying that I don't know much about accupuncture and that it is less insane than astrology.
But it would be ok for me to call you a moron for misusing their for they're and your for you're.  Alas that's poisoning the well, and completely unnecessary.

Finally, add an introduction for yourself, so we can make fun of you more efficiently - SARCASM(second part)