Evolving as Omnivores and Vegetarianism.

[liveyoungdiefast]

I am a vegetarian and I can't rightfully call myself a vegan but I avoid dairy and various animal byproducts as much as practically possible. I guess I'm a borderline vegan or in my girlfriend's words 'a lazy vegan' because as much as I'd like to avoid animal consumption, I rather would still have pizzas and go to restaurants and eat candy and drink Monster (taurine). But onto the point - the most frequent criticism I hear is that 'we're obviously omnivores (we have canines) so why the hell shouldn't we eat meat? I though, don't deny our evolutionary patterns or what's natural for us as human beings - but I also recognize we're living in an unnatural world of modern medicine and technology and advanced communications. And for those in the modern and industrialized world, if vegetarianism is an option, there's nothing wrong with considering it - I'm not so much a health vegetarian, more of an ethical vegetarian, but there are great cases for both. All I'm trying to say though is that little things in our lives are natural anymore, so I'm not denying how we evolved, but just embracing an easily sustainable lifestyle for my own reasons. I just thought it'd be good to provide that rebuttal to the frequent response "we evolved as omnivores" since a lot of veggies seem to meet that with silence. Also I have no problems with meat eaters and wouldn't really consider myself part of the more extremist types, though it's true a lot of them are.

 And also even if you eat 5 steaks per day, you'd have to agree the phrase "God put animals on Earth for us to eat" has to be the most retarded thing people have come up with in a long while.

[curiosityandthecat]

I could never be a vegetarian. When I don't eat meat for a while (just randomly having fish and chicken or tofu instead of red meat for a few days) I really begin to crave it. Medium rare, nice and tender, wonderfully charred on the outside, seasoned with just salt and pepper (none of that crap sauce people like to ruin steaks with). Yum.

It's in my genes, though. My mother jokingly said once, "If a Jew would just try bacon once, I'm sure they'd convert."  

[Kylyssa]

I attempted being a vegetarian years back, before my current health problems.  I had the most seizures towards the end of that year that I had ever had.  When I was hospitalized for a seizure, they gave me meat (and I use the term loosely, it's hospital food I'm talking about) and it sort of put me back in the habit of eating it.  As I slid back into eating meat (mostly raw fish and the occasional cooked chicken breast) my seizures went back to almost non-existent.  Maybe it was a coincidence but ever since, I try to eat meat at least once a week.

If we really wanted to eat an ancestral diet, we'd probably be eating grubs rather than beef.

And not to be a horrible stereotype but when I was keeping a vegetarian diet, it became extremely difficult every month during PMS.  I still want a big gob of sashimi every month.  

I agree about that horrible "God put animals on Earth for us to eat" thing.  I think it's arrogant and also, I can't think of the right word but disturbing will do, I guess.  The idea that everything was put here for our convenience just disgusts me.

[VanReal]

But onto the point - the most frequent criticism I hear is that 'we're obviously omnivores (we have canines) so why the hell shouldn't we eat meat? [/quotes]

This is a misleading argument.  Our tiny canine teeth are not built for ripping and tearing through fur and flesh.  Vegetarian animals in the wild have canine teeth three times larger than ours, such as a monkeys.  The canine teeth argument is not a good one. [attachment=0:2zhhflzm]Arnhem%20283sml.jpg[/attachment:2zhhflzm]

And also even if you eat 5 steaks per day, you'd have to agree the phrase "God put animals on Earth for us to eat" has to be the most retarded thing people have come up with in a long while.

This one I have heard on veggieboards for years.  In the bible (and I am not going to pretend to state the verse) god gives adam and eve plants to eat and dominion over the beasts.  It never says to eat the animals.  I've seen religious people ripped apart by militant ethical vegans on that one before, it's not a pretty sight. (But I loved every minute of it!)

I agree our current state of farming is horrid and it is due to the need to feed our population and not a lot of concern for the issue other than when PETA makes a claim.  I think the ethical vegans are a bit extreme, and although I understand their point I just don't see taking honey from honey combs as comparable to skinning cats for fur.  I also have run into some ethical vegans on forums that I am so glad I never was in a dark alley with, you talk about a scary bunch.  I know, that's bad, it's just like saying atheists eat babies and I am trying not to generalize but they are "ethical" vegans and are passionate about it, often to point of being combative.  They kind of remind me of religious zealots, ironically the large majority I spoke with are atheists.

I'd never give up my dairy (no cheese?) and I like honey, eggs, baked goodies, etc.  It's also extremely time consuming if you want to make sure you are getting enough nutrients and protein.  I agree though that our technology and knowledge at this point makes eating meat a luxury and not a necessity.  It doesn't mean that people don't still think body parts are scrumptous.  I would be happy if we could just move towards a more humane life for the animals that are going to be consumed, the conditions are terrible and not acceptable for living breathing things that can suffer.

[Will]

But onto the point - the most frequent criticism I hear is that 'we're obviously omnivores (we have canines) so why the hell shouldn't we eat meat

Omnivore only means that we can eat different things, not that we do. It's about options. Carnivores are built (err rather have evolved) to survive mainly on meat. We need a lot more than meat to survive, but more importantly can survive without meat. Or without veggies. Or without grains. Obligate carnivores, like snakes, can't survive without meat.

Me? I don't eat beef and I generally only eat free range meat. I also avoid most grains. Most of my diet is veggies, fruits, and nuts. I eat them because I like them and I know they're healthy. What more is there?

[Hitsumei]

It's the naturalistic fallacy to say that because we are omnivores, we ought to eat meat. Naturalistic fallacious reasoning is hugely common.

[Tanker]

While I could never be a vegatarian I like meat to much. I will fully agree most westeners and Americans in paticular eat to much meat. Aside from our teeth which are a mix carnivore and omnivore, our digestive tract is a mix of what either a pure carnivore of pure omnivor would have. Not to mention that some of the sybiotic bactieria in our guts is almost exclusively used for digesting meat. Another compelling reason for humans being omnivores is that animals generaly don't find the smells of foods they shouldn't eat appatising, there are of couse exceptions to this but it's still generally true. Another intersting fact is that of all plants only 1 has all the protiens needed for health in a human, if you hadden't guessed it's the soy bean. If humans were supposed to be only vegetarian I would think that we would have a wider range of plants that met all our needs, especially closer to were human eveolution is supposed to have taken place in Africa. The special dietary resraints vegetarians follow would have been impractiacal for a roaming tribe of proto-humans. All the foods many modern vegetarians eat today to remain healty come from all over the world, and I don't know of an area of the ancient world that had plants with all the vitemins, minerals, protiens, and nutrients a human would need without ocasional meat. (there may be some area I just don't know of it).

Humans can live healthy lives on nothing but plants today but as our speicies was evolving through our earlier primate forms I believe pure vegetairianism would be unfeasable. most primates happily eat meat and many apes have been recorded hunting meat.

[PipeBox]

It's not like I want to eat animals, but the plants are life as much as anything else.  Not sentient, though.  Life would be so much more simple if we were photosynthetic.  

Anyway, I slowly get crazy if I don't eat something meaty, but I've been known to go weeks at a time, all the same.  What do you guys think it would take to get a paradigm shift, and does anyone know if animals consume less land (I would assume it's quite a bit more) than the crops that might otherwise be grown to feed people?  It seems to me that the choice would be clear, but we've got a massive market and many people's livelihood wound up into all this, so it'd take a lot of time to wind down.

[Kylyssa]

If humans were supposed to be only vegetarian I would think that we would have a wider range of plants that met all our needs, especially closer to were human eveolution is supposed to have taken place in Africa.

We are supposed to be anything.  That implies intent.  We survived because we are like rats, we can survive on anything.  Primitive humans that liked meat probably had a survival advantage, it doesn't mean meat is our ideal food, it means that critters that can eat anything that grows or crawls by have a distinct survival advantage over finicky critters when food is scarce.

[VanReal]

It's not like I want to eat animals, but the plants are life as much as anything else.  Not sentient, though.  Life would be so much more simple if we were photosynthetic.  

[SteveS]

I'm not a vegetarian, but my wife is.  We get along fine.  I have to admit I'm something of a hedonist --- I'm more likely to eat what I want to eat, or what tastes good, then I am to go to too much trouble trying to figure out if it is healthy or not.  I don't mean by this that I eat 5 steaks a week.  What I mean is that I don't torture myself over the nutrition label.  Instead, I just basically try not to go overboard.

Health wise, how well does this work?  Probably not that well.  But if I only get one life, then I'm going to enjoy it, dammit!!  

[Ihateyoumike]

I could never be a vegetarian. No one could ever make me feel bad enough to do so. That's about all I can say for this topic.

[McQ]

Awwww, just SHUT UP and give me my Filet Mignon!

Medium. With a side of bacon.[/i]