Godless morality

[Tank]

Off topic (though the topic is  silly) I guess internet dating solves all of these problems. One could give the ladies all pertinent info up front:  Name, age, penis size, occupation/income level, height, political affiliation, worldview, interests, and a recent full body picture.  I guess one would have to add whether they have kids and whether they want kids in the future. Oh, and of course what kind of relationship they do or don't want.  It seems so simple.  I wonder why more people don't do it?

Great idea!  I might print off some "open for business" cards myself.  Of course I don't have a penis, though.  And I'd rather know if you give oral than how big your penis is.

Nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom  

[humblesmurph]

Off topic (though the topic is  silly) I guess internet dating solves all of these problems. One could give the ladies all pertinent info up front:  Name, age, penis size, occupation/income level, height, political affiliation, worldview, interests, and a recent full body picture.  I guess one would have to add whether they have kids and whether they want kids in the future. Oh, and of course what kind of relationship they do or don't want.  It seems so simple.  I wonder why more people don't do it?

Great idea!  I might print off some "open for business" cards myself.  Of course I don't have a penis, though.  And I'd rather know if you give oral than how big your penis is.

Nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom  roflol   Are their people who don't give oral?

[Asmodean]

Nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom  :bananacolor:

[The Magic Pudding]

Have you seen much Monty Python humour before? If not you may be on a steep learning curve  

Wait, I take comedy very seriously.  It is such a fragile form of art, if one thing is off, the joke is lost.  Should I watch some other Monty Python before I dive into "Life of Brian"?  If so, which one(s)?

edit: the big fish was funny

Life of Brian is as good as starting place as any to get into Python as it was created when their style had matured so some of the early experimental stuff which was a little indigestible has gone. Just dive in and start swimming!

The meaning of Life is ... well Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour.
Don't watch A Fish Called Wanda if you ever want to freely reference Nietzsche.

[The Magic Pudding]

And I'd rather know if you give oral than how big your penis is.

Now the avatar makes sense to me.
I just thought it was an annoying cat.

Well it still is an annoying cat.

[Heretical Rants]

no!
It's nothing more or less than the best avatar ever!

[philosoraptor]

I of know men who give the impression that they have more money than they actually have, or women who pretend to not size up every date as a potential husband.  I  have a buddy who has pretended to be into gay activism to get closer to some hot dude.  All in the game.

So does that mean you think most women are always sizing up dates as husband material?  I can't say I've ever done that on a date.  I was busy "sizing" up the potential of other things.  

Off topic (though the topic is  silly) I guess internet dating solves all of these problems. One could give the ladies all pertinent info up front:  Name, age, penis size, occupation/income level, height, political affiliation, worldview, interests, and a recent full body picture.  I guess one would have to add whether they have kids and whether they want kids in the future. Oh, and of course what kind of relationship they do or don't want.  It seems so simple.  I wonder why more people don't do it?

Who said anything about penis size?  Whenever I meet someone for the first time, my number one priority is finding out how fit they would be in the event of a sudden zombie attack/apocalypse.

[Asmodean]

Who said anything about penis size?  Whenever I meet someone for the first time, my number one priority is finding out how fit they would be in the event of a sudden zombie attack/apocalypse.

Well, a .50 trumps a BB in the event... And that's where penis size comes in  

[epepke]

Lying in sexual socialization is an interesting topic.  A lot of the papers I read when I was trying to figure it out claimed that it is expected and even required.

Unfortunately, I've never been any good at lying.  So I had to develop ways of sexual socialization that do not involve them.

[humblesmurph]

Lying in sexual socialization is an interesting topic.  A lot of the papers I read when I was trying to figure it out claimed that it is expected and even required.

Unfortunately, I've never been any good at lying.  So I had to develop ways of sexual socialization that do not involve them.

ooooh.  Yes.  I hate lying.  I see it as a necessity to a avoid DJS.  These honest approaches, do they work?  What are they?  Teach me Obi Wan.  No, I am not being sarcastic.

[The Magic Pudding]

Who said anything about penis size?  Whenever I meet someone for the first time, my number one priority is finding out how fit they would be in the event of a sudden zombie attack/apocalypse.

Well when the zombies come I'll be hiding up a tree.
According to the literature zombies are crap tree climbers.
I have a spare cricket bat if anyone needs one.

[epepke]

Lying in sexual socialization is an interesting topic.  A lot of the papers I read when I was trying to figure it out claimed that it is expected and even required.

Unfortunately, I've never been any good at lying.  So I had to develop ways of sexual socialization that do not involve them.

ooooh.  Yes.  I hate lying.  I see it as a necessity to a avoid DJS.  These honest approaches, do they work?  What are they?  Teach me Obi Wan.  No, I am not being sarcastic.

A day and I'm Obi Wan?  

Well, no, but it's good for me to revisit these things because I'm writing an iPhone application to help people with their shyness.  I did this on fora for well over a decade, and people have told me I should write a book.  I tried a few times, but I found that a book is too linear.  I need information to go through the various paths, and apart from being there, a program that learns is the best.

So I can't give a single comprehensive explanation, but I'll do my best, and maybe I'll get another essay out of if.  Fair warning, though.  When I worked with shy people, I found that only about 10% at most at any one time were ready to start overcoming it.  Also, none of this is specific to sex, gender, or sexual orientation.  I say this not from any ideological preconceptions but from experience.

Anyway, people lie, prevaricate, mislead, hide information, etc. basically because of fear.  They are afraid of rejection, embarrassment, doing the wrong thing, eliciting hostility, and so on and so forth.  The canonical, cultural ways of sexual socialization pander to these fears.  What happens is that people try to project an imaginary story of themselves that they think, using strategy and tactics, will make them seem more attractive to the appropriate sex.  The problem with this is manyfold.  First of all, almost everyone is doing it, so the appropriate sex learns to be cynical.  Second, the models of how the appropriate sex works are defective in many ways, for one, that when people talk about how they want to be approached, they are not talking about what they respond to but rather about what kind of approach gives them optimal power over the approacher, and imbalances like that are the enemy of intimacy.  Third, it's pretty stupid, as once the honeymoon is over, you're going to have to relax.  There are other reasons, but these will do for now.

The approach is simple: be honest, upfront, and straightforward about everything, and do not fear any effects.  You ask if it works.  Well, I think it works.  It gets me what I seek.  I do not know what you seek, so I cannot say if it will get you what you seek.  I have noticed that many people, perhaps most, seek to play games of the kind that the Jerry Springer show celebrates.  Broken promises, betrayals, anger, violence, jealousy, the kinds of things that most of popular culture portrays.  A lot of people seem to find this stuff exciting, but I happen to dislike it.  I have experienced such things in the past when I was more incompetent, and I did not enjoy them much.

So it would help to know what you seek.  (At this point in the app there would be a question.)

Now, how to get there from here is a bit more complex and probably beyond the scope of this post.

[humblesmurph]

A day and I'm Obi Wan?  

Well, no, but it's good for me to revisit these things because I'm writing an iPhone application to help people with their shyness.  I did this on fora for well over a decade, and people have told me I should write a book.  I tried a few times, but I found that a book is too linear.  I need information to go through the various paths, and apart from being there, a program that learns is the best.

So I can't give a single comprehensive explanation, but I'll do my best, and maybe I'll get another essay out of if.  Fair warning, though.  When I worked with shy people, I found that only about 10% at most at any one time were ready to start overcoming it.  Also, none of this is specific to sex, gender, or sexual orientation.  I say this not from any ideological preconceptions but from experience.

Anyway, people lie, prevaricate, mislead, hide information, etc. basically because of fear.  They are afraid of rejection, embarrassment, doing the wrong thing, eliciting hostility, and so on and so forth.  The canonical, cultural ways of sexual socialization pander to these fears.  What happens is that people try to project an imaginary story of themselves that they think, using strategy and tactics, will make them seem more attractive to the appropriate sex.  The problem with this is manyfold.  First of all, almost everyone is doing it, so the appropriate sex learns to be cynical.  Second, the models of how the appropriate sex works are defective in many ways, for one, that when people talk about how they want to be approached, they are not talking about what they respond to but rather about what kind of approach gives them optimal power over the approacher, and imbalances like that are the enemy of intimacy.  Third, it's pretty stupid, as once the honeymoon is over, you're going to have to relax.  There are other reasons, but these will do for now.

The approach is simple: be honest, upfront, and straightforward about everything, and do not fear any effects.  You ask if it works.  Well, I think it works.  It gets me what I seek.  I do not know what you seek, so I cannot say if it will get you what you seek.  I have noticed that many people, perhaps most, seek to play games of the kind that the Jerry Springer show celebrates.  Broken promises, betrayals, anger, violence, jealousy, the kinds of things that most of popular culture portrays.  A lot of people seem to find this stuff exciting, but I happen to dislike it.  I have experienced such things in the past when I was more incompetent, and I did not enjoy them much.

So it would help to know what you seek.  (At this point in the app there would be a question.)

Now, how to get there from here is a bit more complex and probably beyond the scope of this post.

Thanks for the insight.  Good stuff.  The app sounds like a great idea.

What I seek would be pretty common I would guess.  I want to have sex with sane, attractive women, without having to lie to them about being an atheist.   I'm not shy, I've just grown tired of misrepresenting myself in order to have "success" (such that it has been) with women.

[epepke]

What I seek would be pretty common I would guess.  I want to have sex with sane, attractive women, without having to lie to them about being an atheist.   I'm not shy, I've just grown tired of misrepresenting myself in order to have "success" (such that it has been) with women.

If you are not shy, then you have advantages right there.  You just have to punch through to a level where you are so open and straightforward that it involves complete confidence, which is attractive to most people.  A surprisingly large number of people will feel relieved at not playing the game, so to speak.

Still, there is a wide variety of forms of seduction.  You have to understand the patterns and "rules" and then break them knowingly.  I've had to learn as many forms as I could in order to have a good understanding of sexual socialization.  That's probably not necessary for you at this point, and so it would be good to narrow things down a bit.  Where do you do your approaches, what kind of approaches do you use, what's the onset time, number of meetings before sex, etc?

It occurs to me to wonder why it is that religion comes up as a topic frequently enough to be troublesome.  I'm having a hard time thinking of a case where it has come up recently, and that includes interactions with women in Alabama.  When it does come up, it's after it wouldn't matter, and it hasn't ever been a source of real friction, though I do tease them some.  Perhaps a faster onset would be something for you to explore.  In my experience, faster onset also leads to saner relationships--any artificial delay beyond the level of establishing comfort seems to be a red flag.  Too late is just as bad as too early.

[humblesmurph]

It occurs to me to wonder why it is that religion comes up as a topic frequently enough to be troublesome.  I'm having a hard time thinking of a case where it has come up recently, and that includes interactions with women in Alabama.  When it does come up, it's after it wouldn't matter, and it hasn't ever been a source of real friction, though I do tease them some.  Perhaps a faster onset would be something for you to explore.  In my experience, faster onset also leads to saner relationships--any artificial delay beyond the level of establishing comfort seems to be a red flag.  Too late is just as bad as too early.

Religion likely comes up for two reasons, the kind of women I date, and the amount of talking we do before we actually get into anything exciting.  The woman I date are largely black Americans. They tend to be more theistic.  The way I get closer to women is listening to them talk.  When this talking goes unchecked, some form of spiritual question often comes my way.