Belief about things like God and Atheism

[Me_Be]

Hello, as a newbie here. I would just like to start my introspection off by asking other forum users one genuine question.

Who told you you are an Atheist?

And do you just believe you are an Atheist without question.

[Asmodean]

Welcome!

I think it was my gran, who put the word to the concept. Prior to that, I lived into double digits simply not believing in gods, and "that was that," without ever needing a word for it. (Religion "never" really came up in the everyday life in our household or immediate community, and while I was aware of it, my understanding of it was that of "just something you did for Christmas," rather than something you lived by)

I do not believe that I am an Atheist as such. It works like this;

I do not believe in gods of humanity. (It is "reasonably" absolute, as positions go, so you could also think of me as "gnostic" in many situations. For instance, I don't believe in Horus, but I also disbelieve that Horus is or was an actual divine being. It may not seem like it, but those are two distinct thoughts.)

In any case, for the above reason, you could describe me as [an] atheist. If I were to describe myself, I "coined" (by virtue of not having come across it somewhere else prior) the term "never-theist" for that - meaning that I was born a "blank slate," and have not filled any of it with the divine. in that regard, I have remained "at default settings," though beyond certain point, consciously so.

When it comes to belief without question, that's not something I am easily capable of. I am inclined to question pretty-much everything greater than what someone had for dinner yesterday. That's me though - the degree of scepticism, and also agreeableness, which does play into it, varies greatly among atheists, just like the degree of faith varies among the religious. If you imagine a graph where left to right you have increasing faith and bottom to top you have increasing scepticism, I'd place myself around 3/4 up and pretty much all the way to the left.

I do not subscribe to any sort of "prescriptive" Ahteism, where it's turned into a philosophy of sorts, or a political movement, with moral codes and ambitions and what-else-have-you. I am not "atheist, therefore <insert thing>." What I am, is a person who holds no belief in gods, which is commonly referred to as "atheist."

I hope this proved insightful. You are most welcome to challenge me to expand, justify or explain.

[zorkan]

I'm atheist to all gods apart from my own which is Zorka.
Just like Christians, Muslims and Jews are also atheists.
My holy scripture is the Book of Zorka which is based upon science and personal experience.
When I die I'll get a planet to rule over with an unlimited supply of virgins.
I hope she also throws in golf courses and greenkeepers to keep them in good condition.

[Asmodean]

What will you do with the virgins after having sex with them though, or, Zorka forbid, if they start having sex with each other, thereby losing their virginity?

Is there a appropriate passage in The Book(tm)?

[Me_Be]

Welcome!

Thank you!

In any case, for the above reason, you could describe me as [an] atheist. If I were to describe myself, I "coined" (by virtue of not having come across it somewhere else prior) the term "never-theist" for that - meaning that I was born a "blank slate," and have not filled any of it with the divine. in that regard, I have remained "at default settings," though beyond certain point, consciously so.

When it comes to belief without question, that's not something I am easily capable of. I am inclined to question pretty-much everything greater than what someone had for dinner yesterday. That's me though - the degree of scepticism, and also agreeableness, which does play into it, varies greatly among atheists, just like the degree of faith varies among the religious. If you imagine a graph where left to right you have increasing faith and bottom to top you have increasing scepticism, I'd place myself around 3/4 up and pretty much all the way to the left.

I do not subscribe to any sort of "prescriptive" Ahteism, where it's turned into a philosophy of sorts, or a political movement, with moral codes and ambitions and what-else-have-you. I am not "atheist, therefore <insert thing>." What I am, is a person who holds no belief in gods, which is commonly referred to as "atheist."

I hope this proved insightful. You are most welcome to challenge me to expand, justify or explain.

Yes, thank you, the reply was very insightful. I liked the way you put it.

The (blank slate) part was the bit I liked the best. Followed by the filling in of the (blank slate) That was good too.

[Me_Be]

I'm atheist to all gods apart from my own which is Zorka.
Just like Christians, Muslims and Jews are also atheists.
My holy scripture is the Book of Zorka which is based upon science and personal experience.

That's the only God you will ever know to be honest, the one you have constructed there in you. 

When I die I'll get a planet to rule over with an unlimited supply of virgins.
I hope she also throws in golf courses and greenkeepers to keep them in good condition.

You'll have to wait until you die, before you are able to experience you're idea of an anticipated future in the here and now, assuming you are alive at the moment, and not already dead?   

[zorkan]

What will you do with the virgins after having sex with them though, or, Zorka forbid, if they start having sex with each other, thereby losing their virginity?

Is there a appropriate passage in The Book(tm)?

Book of Zorka Chapter 3 Morals.
"When it comes to pass that a virgin has lost her virginity she can be put to work cooking, cleaning and mowing the fairways on the golf courses."

[Asmodean]

Book of Zorka Chapter 3 Morals.
"When it comes to pass that a virgin has lost her virginity she can be put to work cooking, cleaning and mowing the fairways on the golf courses."

Hey! That's plagirized straight from The Gray Tome Of Asmology, Asmonomy and Asmosity, Who Art The Asmoly Trinity of All Asmos!

"And yey, when it cometh to passeth that a virgineth knoweth The Asmo and in so knowething tasteth of the forbidden fruiteth, then He shalt punishest the maideneth by confiscatething her virginity, makingeth her breasts saggeth and cursingeth her with mind-numbingeth daily chores. So speaketh The Asmo, who wath chewingeth on a sack of potatoeth, and thereby thusly slurrethed."

[Me_Be]

The belief in God is only real to the believer. The disbelief in God is the belief that there is a God to disbelieve. Both these distinctions are imagined.

God can only exist if you believe God exists, if you don't believe God exists, then God disappears. So that which can be imagined can also be unimagined.
Reality is fundamentally this immediate unknowing, prior to the mind that make-believes a story about it. Only the mind is born, not reality, and there lies the distinction between the born and unborn, real and fantasy..

So that every single thing is just a distinction within the infinite mind. The difference between fantasy and real can be dissolved by process of a mind that can unimagine the imagined. So any distinction that appears to exist objectively as an absolute does not actually exist, meaning, reality by itself is infinitely free to imagine whatever it wants.

Thoughts..

[Icarus]

The belief in God is only real to the believer. The disbelief in God is the belief that there is a God to disbelieve. Both these distinctions are imagined.

I will need to chew on that statement before I can create a suitable reply.
I will ponder your statement: "the disbelief in God is the belief that there is a god to disbelieve"...........

 Fervent, or even casual, belief in a God is to me an absurdity. What is a God? What,who,how,when,why the Christian God that so much of my country is smitten with. Or Allah for whom the dedicated Muslim will dutifully kill me for my disbelief. I am firmly attached to the idea that a God, Christian or otherwise, is a human invention.

OK the logic is slowly dawning.....I can only disbelieve something that is the object of my disbelief..........I will go to my room now.

[Me_Be]

I will need to chew on that statement before I can create a suitable reply.
I will ponder your statement: "the disbelief in God is the belief that there is a god to disbelieve"...........

 Fervent, or even casual, belief in a God is to me an absurdity. What is a God? What,who,how,when,why the Christian God that so much of my country is smitten with. Or Allah for whom the dedicated Muslim will dutifully kill me for my disbelief. I am firmly attached to the idea that a God, Christian or otherwise, is a human invention.

OK the logic is slowly dawning.....I can only disbelieve something that is the object of my disbelief..........I will go to my room now.

Very good!

A Belief in God and the disbelief in God are identical beliefs, both are imagined, as there is no believer, and yet  BELIEVING appears to be happening.

Here now, there is only 'BELIEVING' which is the absolute unconditional freedom for everything to be or not be.

[zorkan]

A Belief in God and the disbelief in God are identical beliefs, both are imagined, as there is no believer, and yet  BELIEVING appears to be happening.

I get it now. You're a Zen Buddhist. They believe and disbelieve in equal measure.
Like, is that stone on the ground or is it inside your head?
If you reply inside the head, then the stone must be very heavy just like it is on the ground.

Quote from M*A*S*H on the subject of ghost surgeon Tuttle's details.

Capt. Benjamin Franklin "Hawkeye" Pierce: [creating Tuttle's service record] Religion?
Army Capt. 'Trapper John' McIntyre: Atheist.
Capt. Benjamin Franklin "Hawkeye" Pierce: I don't believe in atheism. Let's make him a Druid.
Cpl. Walter 'Radar' O'Reilly: What's that?
Capt. Benjamin Franklin "Hawkeye" Pierce: They worship trees.

[Me_Be]

A Belief in God and the disbelief in God are identical beliefs, both are imagined, as there is no believer, and yet  BELIEVING appears to be happening.

I get it now. You're a Zen Buddhist. They believe and disbelieve in equal measure.

Well no one believes that of course, and yet within belief,  everyone who is conscious/self-aware is the Buddha in essence. And yet, there is no one to be a Buddha because there is none other than the Buddha nature of reality.

Human self-awareness; can simply be recognised as a truth that there is without doubt or error an awareness of being aware; creating the illusion of otherness, where there is a something aware of something else. That something else in this case is identification with one's own thought, which is belief.

 "Man is the measure of all things" Protagoras said. There in lies the flaw in us all.

Meaning, no single one is the Buddha, every single one is the Buddha. The truth can be spoken, but for many or most, it cannot be heard.

[zorkan]

Well no one believes that of course, and yet within belief, everyone who is conscious/self-aware is the Buddha in essence. And yet, there is no one to be a Buddha because there is none other than the Buddha nature of reality.

So everyone and no one is the Buddha.
This is like the stone in the head.

Human self-awareness; can simply be recognised as a truth that there is without doubt or error an awareness of being aware; creating the illusion of otherness, where there is a something aware of something else. That something else in this case is identification with one's own thought, which is belief.

There is no truth, only a delusion that we think we know.

"Man is the measure of all things" Protagoras said. There in lies the flaw in us all.

Does that mean Man knows the measure of all things?

[Me_Be]

So everyone and no one is the Buddha.

Everyone is simply one appearing as the many. This one is the Buddha, which is just a concept pointing to the unenlightened one.
One without a second.

The Buddha is NEVER seen, only known in it's conception. In other words One knows it doesn't know itself.

And so 'Unknowing' is the meaning behind the saying: '' If you SEE the Buddha on the road kill him''

This is like the stone in the head.

I'm not familiar with that saying.
In fact there is no head. No seeing entity ever sees it's own head. Seeing is everywhere at once, one without a second.

 But then we can say I see my head as reflection in a mirror. But the head seen in a mirror is not the true head. No one ever combs the hair seen in the mirror, or put's lipstick on the face in the mirror. No one has ever seen their ''original face''. We simply identify with the illusion of what we believe is our face as it is seen as and through reflection. 

Human self-awareness; can simply be recognised as a truth that there is without doubt or error an awareness of being aware; creating the illusion of otherness, where there is a something aware of something else. That something else in this case is identification with one's own thought, which is belief.

There is no truth, only a delusion that we think we know.

Yes, that's right. The truth is not what we think it is. And that's the only truth we can ever know.

"Man is the measure of all things" Protagoras said. There in lies the flaw in us all.

Does that mean Man knows the measure of all things?

Well no one knows the truth except what 'man' knows via what man believes to be truth. Our believed truth is flawed, it's simply make-belief. In reality there is only you're own personal subjective truth. There is never any absolute objective truth out-there existing independent of you.