Politics and Islam in UK

[zorkan]

Much in the news now about how much Islamists influence politics in the UK.

Conservative MP Lee Anderson claims that Sadiq Khan the Mayor of London is now under the control of Islamists.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68392621

Here are some statistics for the number Muslims in areas, and all are in England.

London Borough of Tower Hamlets 39.9% 123,912
Blackburn with Darwen 35.0% 54,146
London Borough of Newham 34.8% 122,146
Luton 32.9% 74,191
London Borough of Redbridge 31.3% 97,068
City of Bradford 30.5% 166,846
Birmingham 29.9% 341,811
Slough 29.4% 46,661
Pendle 26.0% 24,900
Metropolitan Borough of Oldham 24.4% 59,031
Leicester 23.5% 86,443
London Borough of Waltham Forest 21.6% 60,157

Highlighted Birmingham because I'm not far away.
UK's second largest city can only get more Islamic.
White English people have been pushed out to neighbouring towns, as is also the case with Leicester and Bradford.
Anti-Semitism is a fact of life with stabbings.
From a personal point of view, it feels very scary now.
 

[billy rubin]

id be scared too if i didnt know the difference between muslims and islamists.

[zorkan]

A few days ago this anti-Semitic message was projected on to Big Ben tower at the Houses of Parliament and the police did nothing.
From the river to the sea.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13115451/Outrage-genocide-message-projected-Big-Ben-Jewish-pro-Palestine.html

A few months ago I was travelling by train in Birmingham.
an incident on the train forced me to alight at the next station to report it.
Member of staff at station told me I need not bother.
I noticed he was wearing a Jewish skull cap but thought nothing of it.
Told me how he was stabbed at the station and also on a bus.
The police were not interested.

Muslim vigilantes take to streets of London in 2013.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2523658/Muslim-campaigners-protest-sale-alcohol-popular-East-London-area.html


 )

[Asmodean]

id be scared too if i didnt know the difference between muslims and islamists.

There is more to it than potential for terrorism though. I suppose it all comes down to integration. If someone is British, and happens to be Muslim, then I'd say there is no problem. If someone is Muslim who happens to have a British passport - then there may be one.

That's one thing I've learned watching americans online. If enough people are culturally not of their nation of residence, national cohesion must suffer.

It's a pretty big issue to unpack, and when I do it, I tend to offend the globally-minded, but I shall engage if the interest is there.

[zorkan]

Taking the case of Blackburn, #2 in above list.
The term ghettoization appears in this article.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/673789/Blackburn-Islam-muslim-community-rise-of-the-burka-Koran-religion

In the case of Luton #4, it has been reported that daughters have been taken away from their families and that's the last their parents have seen of them.

@Asmo - please do engage.

[billy rubin]

a major part of the problem is saudi wahabiism.

the saudi madrasses have been teaching wahabi for a generation now.

its not a good thing. theyve got madrasses allnover the world under the guise of traditional schooling. but the wahabi philosophy is ascetic and harsh. used to be saudi only but now its worldwide because of their money

[Asmodean]

I think cultural isolation is a contributing factor there as well, even if intentional and/or self-imposed.

When in Rome, parlo italiano.

[zorkan]

Members of UK parliament now to get extra security.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/james-cleverly-mps-rishi-sunak-lindsay-hoyle-chris-philp-b2503604.html

Not all of it is connected to religion, but I suspect most of it is.

https://www.westminstersecurity.co.uk/close-protection/bodyguards/mps-security/

[zorkan]

UK now descending into anarchy by Muslims.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mp-security-government-missing-point-b2503926.html

[Asmodean]

I read this;

He said that he would "do whatever it requires to protect our democracy and our values that we all hold dear".

...and assumed that people were protesting some government-related whatnots within the nation. "Not my prime minister" or what other buzzwordy foolishness have you. But then,

Gaza

I think that as long as the protests are peaceful, they should be left to it. When they turn nasty, especially (but not limited to) if there is harm to private citizens or their property, then dispersing the protest is the way to go. Whatever the case, any rioters, looters or vandals within the protest should in my opinion be prosecuted.

I also think that governments can be better at telling the protesters, "we heard you. Not happening. Go home." But I do see the flipside of that in that a bad faith protestor would use that as an excuse to turn riotous, but the upside is that then you could lower the bar for dispersing a crowd - possibly to the point where actual protest-related crime can be avoided.

Let things be decided at the ballot box, as is intended in a democratic society. [The threat of] a riot/revolt/revolution is not a counter-balance to government tyranny - actual or perceived - a vote is. (There are cases where that does not hold true, but in such, you likely have a dictatorship or a nation already on the brink of a civil war)

[billy rubin]

UK now descending into anarchy by Muslims.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mp-security-government-missing-point-b2503926.html

what is it about the british government that allows them to parade their fascism so publicly?

werent the murders of the irish during the troubles enough of a red flag? the imprisonments without charges, for years?

london became a surveillance fish tank years ago. now the politicians are whinging that the people object to their policies in public and have the temerity to protest directly to the authors of the injustice.

sorry, my government is fucked, but we havent yet caught up to the british version.

[Asmodean]

From where I sit, the UK government is not even Fascist-like.

They have some elements of it, but it may be worth remembering that the UK "does not have" (explanation follows) the freedom of expression - nor does Norway, for that matter. (Our constitution says that it "should be respected," not that it must not be infringed upon by the government) The US is pretty unique that way.

In that light, if it is legally prudent to imprison a "random" teenager for something said on the Internet, why should it then not be so to imprison a protester for something said at a rally, as long as it meets the relatively-broad criteria for hate speech or the somewhat-more-narrow criteria for a threat?

The devil in the details: from what I can see, they are not trying to ban protest as such, only harden their approach to certain expressions of it. This is in essence no different to hate speech laws. The government does not mandate what you must say, but may place a limit on what you may say and how.  Personally, I like the American 1st Amendment and wouldn't mind having its like in our own constitution, but I think if put to a vote, the majority of people would like to keep government oversight over individual expression - also when it is non-violent, and so here we are, stuck with "should."

There is hate speech. There is speech that you hate. If you can curtail one by calling it the other... Well, people would.

[billy rubin]

Anew consensus has emerged in British politics: peaceful protesters are dangerous, hateful extremists, but apologists for the mass slaughter of tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians are mainstream, respectable moderates. From his prime ministerial bully pulpit, Rishi Sunak declares there is a "growing consensus" that "mob rule is replacing democratic rule". The world has been turned upside down, and you are entitled to ask why.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/29/britain-israel-war-palestinians-gaza

[Asmodean]

My dude...

Owen Jones? For reals?

...I may get into it, but there is something comforting in seeing Owen still being as full of ideological manure as he used to be in them good old days.

[zorkan]

Pro Palestinian anti-Semite wins Rochdale by-election yesterday.
A man who once flew the Palestinian flag over council offices in Dundee.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-68402672

Labour had to pull out their candidate after a conspiracy theory.

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-candidate-fell-for-online-conspiracy-theory-about-hamas-attacks-shadow-minister-says-13069951

Since when has British politics ever been dull?