Married with Theists

[Atheist Mother]

Not sure where to post this, I looked around, but figure you guys can move it if I chose wrong.

My husband is a theist.  He was raised *big sigh* Church of Christ, then switched to Pentacostal, then to United Methodist-- the latter being because I "forced" him.  I am quite liberal, open minded and curious about most things, especially the big things, like politics, religion, history.  He is, well, not so much.  He is politically apathetic, though, currently he likes talking about the presidential candidates.  As far as religion goes, he questions enough to not believe in the bible, though wants our children raised with it and gives answers to such questions as "Why are there trees" with the usual (I believe lazy) "God made them".  IMO, that is no better than telling your kids that the reason we have money is because the money fairies make them.  

However small this seems, it is straining our relationship...  I want the children [ages, 8, 6, 3, 22 mo] to be taught (or perhaps with the older ones retaught) that it is okay to question everything.  That maybe there is a god, a sort of child like agnosticism.  I see the effects of religion (heavy duty style) on other children in this small area which we reside... they sure are obedient!  But without question, in fear.

He wants the children raised in an atmosphere of God, fear of God, and maybe not the biblical type, though to be sure, he has no idea of any other type regardless of his dismissal of the bible itself.  

He feels this is wholly unfair and mean of me to "switch" like this to go from trying to be a Christian wife, to a totally freethinking, open, no gods, no religion, wife.  I have been pretty indecisive about things, especially religion, since I could never find one that completely fit my mold of what I wanted it to be.  I am pro-gay marriage, pro-choice, anti death penalty.... UMC was the closest I came.  I found my niche there about a year ago, but then began looking deeper into the bible itself.  

However, between my fickleness, I managed to enroll my children in various Christian ideals.  We tried out the Good News Club, which was fundamentalist and not okay.  They went and one still goes (there isn't a choice besides homeschooling in this small town) to a Christian preschool.  They learned the bible through Sunday School (which I taught) and other christianity or god based activites.  Even little league wants children to say they believe in god.



So now we are at a crossroads.  My husband and I love eachother every much, and have no plans for divorce or anything of the sort.  But we are stuck in a never ending debate of what to do about the kids.  He doesn't want them knowing Mommy does not believe in God, he thinks I am just being fickle and will turn back to Christianity soon.  (NOT going to happen, I can't unlearn or undo my brain).  He wants them in boy scouts, which I have a problem with, but unsure if I should put up a fight over it.  He wants them to be taught that god made us.  I take real issue with this.  For his examples to me about it he uses other fantasies such as Santa.  We let them believe in Santa he says, and that doesn't break hearts when they find out it isn't true.   But the thing is, believing in a God, or rather being TOLD by your parents to believe in him, IS heartbreaking when you are 30 and decide that people brainwashed you, and you allowed yourself to brainwash your children.

TIA for your patience through my windy post, and your responses.

[afreethinker30]

I haven't been in the situation myself.I married an atheist.Maybe there could be some way to work out the situation.Maybe a compromise where you both tell the children about your god and godless ideas?You really can't keep the Bible from your children,because it's everywhere.It would give them the chance to see both sides,and form their own thoughts and ideas.You can only protect them so much.My hubsand and I have taught the children about many different types of religion.My oldest is apatheist.And my youngest seems to be leaning towards agnostic.I think it's great seeing my youngest ( ask so many questions about all different beliefs and forming his own conclusions.
 
Maybe your hubsand is worried that godless means less morals?Even though we are in smaller numbers we seem to have less divorce,less violence,more creativity,more scientist well just generally more humane towards others.

We do Santa here,Tooth Fairy and the Easter bunny.But it's all in fun.And my boys know the difference between real and fiction.

[McQ]

I'm married to a roman catholic woman (both of us raised in that church). I also got the "no fair" switching beliefs in mid-life thing. It's not easy, but there are ways to get through it. However, your husband needs to respect you and your beliefs (or lack of beliefs) just as he insists you respect his. Draw the line. My opinion is that he is hurting your kids far more with those lazy answers to their questions than you could ever hurt them with the truth. Work on him, share books with him on rational thinking. Buy him a subscription to Skeptical Inquirer, do something that gets him thinking!

We can go more in depth on this, but that is a start. You'll get there a little bit at a time.  

Feel free to send a PM too.

[MommaSquid]

...As far as religion goes, he questions enough to not believe in the bible...

From little seeds of doubt grow might oaks of atheism.  I am sorry that you are having such a hard time with this issue.  Encourage your kids to question and seek answers.  Don't be pressured into giving the "god did it" answer, since you obviously don't believe that's a valid response.  Help your kids find their own truth while staying true to your own beliefs (and non-beliefs).

Gentle conversations about doubt yield better results than shouting matches, so go easy on the spouse and give him a chance to accept your views.   Maybe he will come around.

I am heartbroken that there is no Santa Claus.  

[myleviathan]

Hi, Atheist Mother -

I am married to a theist. We do not yet have any children, however this is a frequent topic. How we're going to raise kids should we choose to have any. Which it seems we will at some point. So far our concensus is that we will both be honest about our beliefs, or lack thereof. And we will both show the kids how much we love one another even though we don't believe the same way. Hopefully this demonstration of love will teach kids more than church does about how to respect others. I'll tolerate them going to church every once in a while, and my wife will tolerate my atheistic influence. And we'll support each thing but be honest about how we feel.

[afreethinker30]

Hi, Atheist Mother -

I am married to a theist. We do not yet have any children, however this is a frequent topic. How we're going to raise kids should we choose to have any. Which it seems we will at some point. So far our concensus is that we will both be honest about our beliefs, or lack thereof. And we will both show the kids how much we love one another even though we don't believe the same way. Hopefully this demonstration of love will teach kids more than church does about how to respect others. I'll tolerate them going to church every once in a while, and my wife will tolerate my atheistic influence. And we'll support each thing but be honest about how we feel. At least that's the plan...

Great plan.Even better that you talked about it before having kids.

[Jane]

I'm married to a Roman-Catholic. When we met, I was agnostic at best, but have become more firm in my atheism in the years since.

We have this discussion too - even though the children are in the planning stages with no firm dates for production.

His side is that, since he HAS a belief (which I also used to have, having been raised Baptist), HAVING should trump not having, and the kids should be catholic.

Never mind that I think atheism isn't a mere LACK of catholicism (like I have a catholic-shaped hole or something) - I think it would be morally wrong of me to lie to my children and let them think I think there is a sky-daddy judging them. I should be allowed to be honest about my ideas, and he his and let them decide.

My next argument is that I am interested and passionate about religion, educations, science, etc where he is apathetic at best. He may be catholic, but we've only been inside a church to wed. So, i I CARE about my world-view, and he doesn't...which should have more weight?

I don't have a solution for you - but you aren't alone in the "mixed-couple" issues...I sympathize.

[Kylyssa]

I know of nothing truly helpful to say.  I sympathize with your problem.  I was married to a Lutheran for 11 years.  

Fortunately, we never had children.  It was bad enough that he threw my atheism in my face every time he got angry.

[Will]

Why does he want them raised Christian? Because he believes that will get them into heaven. How can you "get them into heaven", but avoid years of indoctrinating youth? Baptism.

Have the kids baptized (as a compromise) and then don't talk to them about god again until they're adults. That seems a fair agreement. If he doesn't accept it, there likely will not be a mutually acceptable agreement. Best of luck.

[Atheist Mother]

Thanks for the replies guys, this is great!

I never planned on being atheistic, or even non-christian when I got married and first started having children.  I wish I had known then!  Maybe we could have hashed it out over the dog being baptised or something.



To answer Willravel, he won't baptise the children as children.  He was Church of Christ and then Pentacostal, both of which do not allow children to be baptised until they come of age (or whatever the wording is) to accept christ themselves.  I tried to convince him when we were in the methodist church to get everyone baptised, but he refused and we had arguments over what the Bible says about baptising everyone, etc.

Jane- I feel for you.  I was Catholic growing up, and I would nail the doors shut to keep my children out of that.  Though in all honesty, Pentacostal is just as bad, just completely flip-side of Catholicism.  Still, maybe you could compromise and do non-denominational church, though I am totally biased against Catholicism... so not the best judge.


McQ- going to check out Skeptical Inquirer.  That is a good idea, something he can read while on the john and enlighten him a bit.

[Will]

To answer Willravel, he won't baptise the children as children.  He was Church of Christ and then Pentacostal, both of which do not allow children to be baptised until they come of age (or whatever the wording is) to accept christ themselves.  I tried to convince him when we were in the methodist church to get everyone baptised, but he refused and we had arguments over what the Bible says about baptising everyone, etc.

Perfect. Use his argument. A believer's baptism, or baptism as an adult, has a simple reasoning: it's a conscious and mature acceptance of god. So, using that exact same logic, why would you want to send your children to a church before they are conscious and mature enough to accept religion? You wouldn't, of course. If you're too young to confess your sins (which is the CoC belief), you're too young to be taught about Jesus and such. Teaching them and yet not baptizing would be a contradiction. Matthew 19:14, Mark 10:14, Luke 18:16 all are cited as biblical evidence for baptism at adulthood. Be sure to quote those in support of your argument before he does, in order to suggest that you're using biblical logic.

[Msblue]

Hi, Atheist Mother -

I am married to a theist. We do not yet have any children, however this is a frequent topic. How we're going to raise kids should we choose to have any. Which it seems we will at some point. So far our concensus is that we will both be honest about our beliefs, or lack thereof. And we will both show the kids how much we love one another even though we don't believe the same way. Hopefully this demonstration of love will teach kids more than church does about how to respect others. I'll tolerate them going to church every once in a while, and my wife will tolerate my atheistic influence. And we'll support each thing but be honest about how we feel. At least that's the plan...

I'm in a very similar situation. To quote someone here my fiance is "Christian-lite". We plan on doing the same thing. I also come from the same background. My mother is Catholic, my father was an Atheist. They both taught me their beliefs (or lack of) In my opinion if I child is taught to be rational, they will quickly see religion just doesn't add up.

[Jolly Sapper]

Well, I don't have (and honestly don't want) kids but I've been with the wifey for about 8 years now.  She's probably more agnostic than atheist and neither of us care one bit about religion.  So my observations and opinions should be taken with a pound or two of salt.

Ask your kids what they want.  Take them to different churches' child bible study classes, I'm sure there are churches you can find who don't mind when people are infrequent visitors.  Maybe letting your children grow up seeing that each sect of a religion has different ways to viewing the same texts will inspire them to question.  (Though, as in the case of my wifey during her childhood, once your kids start questioning too much in church they may find the environment to become a bit less hospitable.)  It seems like it could be a worthwhile idea to treat your children going to church the same way I've always heard that parents are supposed to treat their kids when they come back from school.  Ask them what they learned and how it was taught to them.  If you feel comfortable doing so, put your kids on the spot.  Put on the kid gloves and give some subtle challenges to what they've been taught.  Discuss the weaknesses in the theistic explanations and offer non-theistic explanations when you see them.  

Hopefully this constant exposure to a variety of ideas and mindsets will foster a questioning attitude and give your children the tools needed to make the decision to follow a faith or not.  

But like I said, I don't have any kids and therefore absolutely no experience in child rearing so maybe my stated mindset wouldn't work.