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Moral Nihilism

Started by xSilverPhinx, January 27, 2020, 02:41:49 PM

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billy rubin

^^^all that makez perfect sense to me. if your moral sense iz based on your own aezthetic or material or genetic self interest, then you are free to practice whatever suits your digetstion and that you can get away with.


Given that most people struggle with legible handwriting already, the added complexity of cursive is an unnecessary burden. It is more practical and efficient to stick to standard print writing.

Bad Penny II

#31
Quote from: billy rubin on January 31, 2020, 12:12:19 PM
^^^all that makez perfect sense to me. if your moral sense iz based on your own aezthetic or material or genetic self interest, then you are free to practice whatever suits your digetstion and that you can get away with.

You don't make any sense to me.
There's no supernatural, never has been.
There's just us happy or resigned to being us and the fantasists.
And disaffected fantasist refugees.
Ye, if the answer doesn't come from on high there is no answer.
Take my advice, don't listen to me.

billy rubin

Quote from: Bad Penny II

You don't make any sense to me.
There's no supernatural, never has been.
There's just us happy or resigned to being us and the fantasists.
And disaffected fantasist refugees.
Ye, if the answer doesn't come from on high there is no answer.


where did i say that your moral sense was supernatural?


Given that most people struggle with legible handwriting already, the added complexity of cursive is an unnecessary burden. It is more practical and efficient to stick to standard print writing.

Bad Penny II

Quote from: billy rubin on January 31, 2020, 02:17:44 PM
where did i say that your moral sense was supernatural?

I didn't say that you said that.

I think you've thrown the baby out with the bathwater.
Take my advice, don't listen to me.

Bad Penny II

Quote from: billy rubin on January 31, 2020, 02:17:44 PM
Quote from: Bad Penny II

You don't make any sense to me.
There's no supernatural, never has been.
There's just us happy or resigned to being us and the fantasists.
And disaffected fantasist refugees.
Ye, if the answer doesn't come from on high there is no answer.


where did i say that your moral sense was supernatural?

You repeatedly look to some outside authority to legitimise rules and you find none and you declare the whole rule declaring thing intrinsically lacking.  Did you used to have a god? 
Take my advice, don't listen to me.

billy rubin

#35

what frame of reference is there to distinguish between your baby and your bathwater. penny? can you explain to a cannibal why he shouldn't eat your baby, in terms that he will accept?

ive been an atheist/agnostic most all of my life. but id be a hindu if it msde sense. the food iz good, although only the aghoris eat babies.


Given that most people struggle with legible handwriting already, the added complexity of cursive is an unnecessary burden. It is more practical and efficient to stick to standard print writing.

TallRed

Quote from: billy rubin on January 31, 2020, 04:03:04 PM
ive been an atheist/agnostic most all of my life.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Magdalena

Quote from: TallRed on January 31, 2020, 04:52:34 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on January 31, 2020, 04:03:04 PM
ive been an atheist/agnostic most all of my life.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
billy rubin, why is your friend laughing so hard at your comment? Just curious.

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Kusa

Quote from: Magdalena on January 31, 2020, 07:18:47 PM
Quote from: TallRed on January 31, 2020, 04:52:34 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on January 31, 2020, 04:03:04 PM
ive been an atheist/agnostic most all of my life.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
billy rubin, why is your friend laughing so hard at your comment? Just curious.

Because his "friend" is a window licker.

Bad Penny II

Quote from: billy rubin on January 31, 2020, 04:03:04 PM

what frame of reference is there to distinguish between your baby and your bathwater. penny?

My frame of reference, the baby has value, rules have value so I'll keep them.
Dirty old water and the idea that rules come from on high don't have value so they can be tossed.

Quote from: billy rubin on January 31, 2020, 04:03:04 PM

Penny? can you explain to a cannibal why he shouldn't eat your baby, in terms that he will accept?

If he does it's likely he'll go to prison.  It's an expensive meal all things considered and boneless shoulder pork can be had for $7 kg.
I don't have a problem with others eating human flesh if the person was going to die anyway.  If you're going to kill your enemies you may as well eat them, to do otherwise is wasteful.  Has your cannibal considered a career in the funeral industry?
Take my advice, don't listen to me.

TallRed

Quote from: Kusa on February 01, 2020, 12:35:40 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on January 31, 2020, 07:18:47 PM
Quote from: TallRed on January 31, 2020, 04:52:34 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on January 31, 2020, 04:03:04 PM
ive been an atheist/agnostic most all of my life.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
billy rubin, why is your friend laughing so hard at your comment? Just curious.

Because his "friend" is a window licker.
Keeping it classy, I see. You gotta be you.

Magdalena

Quote from: TallRed on February 01, 2020, 02:59:01 AM
Quote from: Kusa on February 01, 2020, 12:35:40 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on January 31, 2020, 07:18:47 PM
Quote from: TallRed on January 31, 2020, 04:52:34 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on January 31, 2020, 04:03:04 PM
ive been an atheist/agnostic most all of my life.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
billy rubin, why is your friend laughing so hard at your comment? Just curious.

Because his "friend" is a window licker.
Keeping it classy, I see. You gotta be you.


"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Recusant

Quote from: Kusa on February 01, 2020, 12:35:40 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on January 31, 2020, 07:18:47 PM
Quote from: TallRed on January 31, 2020, 04:52:34 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on January 31, 2020, 04:03:04 PM
ive been an atheist/agnostic most all of my life.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
billy rubin, why is your friend laughing so hard at your comment? Just curious.

Because his "friend" is a window licker.

The three of you may know each other from elsewhere, and maybe this is an example of friendly banter. Or maybe not. This is a friendly reminder that the first rule of this site is that civility is important. Yes, it's couched as a suggestion, but that doesn't mean there are no standards. If you want to insult your fellow members, Siz has thoughtfully provided a place for that. It would work out best if you go there if you need to exercise your ability to insult people. There are places on the internet where flame wars are all part of the fun, but this isn't one of them.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Recusant

#43
It looks to me like there has been little attempt in this thread to unpack the statement: "Morality has no objective meaning." I think the concept of "objective meaning" is irrelevant, and a distraction. "Meaning" as I understand it, is not something that can exist independently of a mind or minds. "Objective meaning" therefore is an oxymoron. I don't think it logically follows to assert that because this oxymoronical thing doesn't exist, neither does meaning itself. As if it were possible to compare meaning as a aspect of mind with some true or genuine source of meaning that exists independently of minds, this comparison showing that the meaning with which minds are familiar doesn't actually exist.

"Meaning" is a quality of thought. I'd say that it exists, just as minds exist. Is it even possible for a conscious mind to exist without meaning being an integral component? Doesn't meaning define the very existence of consciousness?

I think it makes sense to say that absent minds, meaning doesn't exist in this universe (nor does morality). There's at least one logical step missing if you go on to say that therefore meaning doesn't exist. One candidate for this step might be "all aspects of minds do not exist." Or perhaps as a syllogism:

P1. Minds are immaterial, as are all aspects of minds, like meaning and morals.

P2. Only material things exist.

C. Neither minds, meaning, nor morals exist.

Hmm, that seems to contradict reality. Maybe a nihilist will come along and point out how I can find a way to divorce meaning from minds, so that it makes sense to come to the conclusion that meaning doesn't exist.

Morality is a phenomenon of the interaction between minds, or between conscious beings. I question whether morality or ethical principles can exist in a unique and completely isolated mind interacting with the inanimate universe.

Groups of people develop moral systems, but different groups develop different systems. Should we then assert that there's no way to evaluate systems of morality? To me, viewing our species as a whole provides a reasonable means of developing a metric for such an evaluation. Some people may tell me that they don't give a fuck about our species, or don't give a fuck about any people outside their particular group. Fine for them, but that doesn't negate the perspective.

I agree that there is no absolutely objective way to evaluate morality, but I don't agree that this means that evaluation of morality is impossible, or meaningless. In this context I don't think there's any such thing as an absolutely objective point of view, anyway. To me, it doesn't make sense to arbitrarily set an impossible standard then use that standard to justify a claim that any other standard than the impossible one is meaningless.

I wouldn't say that my proposed means of assessing morality is better than any other, but I think that it may be more useful than asserting that any attempt to assess morality fails because everything is meaningless.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


billy rubin

Quote from: Bad Penny II on February 01, 2020, 12:36:24 AM
Quote from: billy rubin on January 31, 2020, 04:03:04 PM

what frame of reference is there to distinguish between your baby and your bathwater. penny?

My frame of reference, the baby has value, rules have value so I'll keep them.
Dirty old water and the idea that rules come from on high don't have value so they can be tossed.

well there you are. personal aesthetics is one way to do it. but the cannibal may have other aesthetics. and not care about yours. valuez differ from place to place and time to time.


Given that most people struggle with legible handwriting already, the added complexity of cursive is an unnecessary burden. It is more practical and efficient to stick to standard print writing.