Children of Jehovah's Witnesses

[Dreamer]

i was just thinking about something and wondering whether someone could clear something up for me.

a friend of mine has just spent a few months working as an Au Pair in France. for a family with three adopted kids (adopted from other parts of the world) and the parents of this family are strict Jehovah's witnesses.

now i am generally against children being brought up with one set religious belief, but there is one issue in particular that got my blood boiling. my friend told me that apparently, because Jehovah's witnesses are against such things as blood transfusions, if a child is brought into hospital the hospital has no choice but to respect the parent's religious views and not give the child a blood transfusion even if it really needs it.
i was just wondering whether this occurs in other countries too? and how this can possibly be allowed? surely that is one situation where the state simply has to intervene. to hell with the parent's beliefs (no pun intended) if a child's welfare is at stake can ridiculous religious views really be given higher priority?
and if this is the case isn't there anything we can do about it to protect these children?

thanks for any views or opinions....

[susangail]

I think it's ridiculous and sad. I think the child's best interests should be number one on the doctor's mind, but legally, it can't be. This country is crazy about protecting certain religions' beliefs (Christian mostly). It's annoying and it really scares the shit out of me sometimes.

[Atheist Mother]

"abstain from blood." Acts 15:29

Yet, hemophiliacs are allowed medication that contains "blood" in the layman's sense.  Others can be disfellowshipped for transfusions, etc.

I once read somewhere that Witnesses were a factor in the invention of dialysis, but I now think that is unfounded.

I have close relatives that are Witnesses, and they are incredibly strict and critical of their children.  I am not alleging that all Witnesses are this way, but in comparison to my liberal paternal family, they stand out.

[Will]

This is just one example of when religious doctrine crosses the line into neglect and child abuse. Even negligent homicide.

As to where it's legal, I don't really know. There was a recent case in the US that the parents were not charged.

[afreethinker30]

Parents here can use religious excuses to stop and prevent needed medical care.But there are cases where the state steps in to charge the parents with neglect.I don't see how someone can say they love their child then deny them a treatment that could save their life.

[Atheist Mother]

Off topic sort of.

Even scarier is The Church of Christ, Scientist or Christian Scientists.  Not allowing blood transfusions is one thing, not allowing doctors is another.  The lead singer of Metallica lost his mother to cancer, with help from this religion.  

"The God That Failed"

Pride you took
Pride you feel
Pride that you felt when you'd kneel

Not the word
Not the love
Not what you thought from above

It feeds
It grows
It clouds all that you will know
Deceit
Deceive
Decide just what you believe

I see faith in your eyes
Never your hear the discouraging lies
I hear faith in your cries
Broken is the promise, betrayal
The healing hand held back by the deepened nail

Follow the God that failed

Find your peace
Find your say
Find the smooth road in your way

Trust you gave
A child to save
Left you cold and him in grave

It feeds
It grows
It clouds all that you will know
Deceit
Deceive
Decide just what you believe

I see faith in your eyes
Never you hear the discouraging lies
I hear faith in your cries
Broken is the promise, betrayal
The healing hand held back by the deepened nail

Follow the God that failed

I see faith in your eyes
Broken is the promise, betrayal
The healing hand held back by the deepened nail

Follow the God that failed

Pride you took
Pride you feel
Pride that you felt when youd kneel

Trust you gave
A child to save
Left you cold and him in grave

I see faith in your eyes
Never you hear the discouraging lies
I hear faith in your cries
Broken is the promise, betrayal
The healing hand held back by deepened nail

Follow the God that failed

[afreethinker30]

Christian Science has more of the worst cases of neglect.There is a small sect I can't remember the group that doesn't allow members to even wear eye glasses.It's such nonsense to see people go without something so basic.And the movie The Exorcism of Emily Rose is based on a true story.She was German Catholic,her parents were charged with negligent homicide.The Catholic Church approved her exorcism and there are still alot of people who think her parents and the church were right to have treated her this way.She was an adult but it's pretty clear she had some mental issues going on.

[Asmodean]

a friend of mine has just spent a few months working as an Au Pair in France. for a family with three adopted kids (adopted from other parts of the world) and the parents of this family are strict Jehovah's witnesses.

Ouch!

my friend told me that apparently, because Jehovah's witnesses are against such things as blood transfusions, if a child is brought into hospital the hospital has no choice but to respect the parent's religious views and not give the child a blood transfusion even if it really needs it.

That's how I understand things are in the States. Here, if the kid wants treatment, he/she will get it. In some cases, family members can over-rule someone's decision to refuse treatment (which I think is just as wrong as someone else deciding to give treatment against patient's expressed wishes), but I haven't heard of a family member successfully denying someone's right to potentially life-saving procedures. Thus, our Jehova's Witnesses just brainwash themselves enough to do the refusing themselves.

i was just wondering whether this occurs in other countries too? and how this can possibly be allowed? surely that is one situation where the state simply has to intervene.

The state will stay out of it unless the case goes to court. Such matters are usually, as far as I understand, decided by the treating physician and the hospital's ethics dept.

to hell with the parent's beliefs (no pun intended) if a child's welfare is at stake can ridiculous religious views really be given higher priority?
and if this is the case isn't there anything we can do about it to protect these children?

Where that IS the case, there is little to nothing we can do.

[Pricia]

Yikes.

Speaking of which, I have an interesting story. I used to have a friend who was a Jehovah's Witness. His parents were, and he followed the trend. I had a few good chats with him to understand how it works, and I was totally amazed at the crazy paradox of it all. That guy *really* believed in what he had been taught (brainstormed). His dad wasn't a witness, and I know both he and his mom were really sad that they would not follow him after Judgment day. He was talking about that place where everyone would be happy, but only people who were witnesses and spread the word would go there.

That's where it gets really funny. First, the guy was not a nice guy. He gave that appearance but once you knew him, he was a selfish liar. Second, I asked him how people could be happy in that place, after leaving their friends and relatives that were not witnesses. His reply: (you probably saw it coming) 'Because the Bible says so'.

I think I stopped the conversation after this, because it just made no sense whatsoever. Plus, I didn't tell him that, but I couldn't quite imagine everyone being happy with people like himself there  

[Will]

That guy *really* believed in what he had been taught (brainstormed).

I believe you mean "brainwashed". Brainstorming is when someone or someones concentrate hard on a subject or problem. Still, I guarantee your English is better than my French!

[Pricia]

Yuck. I'm apparently sleep-deprived. Thanks

[Will]

Yuck. I'm apparently sleep-deprived. Thanks

[myleviathan]

In the United States healthcare system it's all about autonomy and informed consent verses the idea of beneficense (the code of healthcare providers to not harm patients). If you're under 18, you are not considered legally able to give consent to any healthcare procedure. Your parents have to do it for you. Healthcare providers have to respect the autonomy for refusal of treatment for any reason whatsoever, including dumb religious reasons. In a case like this a hospital bioethics committee will be called in to discuss the issue with the parents and their clergy and hopefully slap some sense into them. But I assure you, in the US, if the parents refuse care for their children, especially for religious reasons, the kid will not get care, and the parents cannot be charged with child abuse or neglect.  

[Atheist Mother]

It is really something, but in the US we are so fearful of religious discrimination that we allow the religious to get away with murder.

[Jolly Sapper]

... In a case like this a hospital bioethics committee will be called in to discuss the issue with the parents and their clergy and hopefully slap some sense into them. But I assure you, in the US, if the parents refuse care for their children, especially for religious reasons, the kid will not get care, and the parents cannot be charged with child abuse or neglect.