[Court]

Onlyme, you did not really use God as a defense.

As God said, 'discipline seems hard at the time, but with patience, produces a harvest of righteousness.'

God also dashes infants against rocks and throws his non-believing "children" into an eternal fire. I don't plan on taking parenting advice from him.

[Asmodean Prime]

Court, but don't you see:  we are all deserving of being 'dashed against the rocks, and being thrown into eternal fire'

It is only by the Grace of God that we are not.  I think this is where child/parent relationships really come into play.  Should we, as 'children', presume to tell our Creator what is good for us, what we want, what we are going to to, etc?

If we think we are qualified to teach our children what is good for them, then we, as 'children of God' should listen and learn from God, our Father and Creator.

I know you will disagree.  That is your perogative.  I, for my part, will choose to listen, and hopefully, to learn.

[Big Mac]

Why are we deserving? God made us, so that either means god is inherently flawed or he doesn't exist. And don't try to use  the fruit off that tree as an excuse. God knew damn well mankind would do that so it's his fault for making that tree to begin with. I just don't get WHY he made it in the first place. Who the fuck was going to fucking eat off it anyway?

[Asmodean Prime]

I think, Bigmac (and I'm not being dogmatic here, cos I don't know), that God did indeed know that Adam and Eve would eat the fruit....BUT...and here's the clincher...BUT he also provided a way 'before the foundation of the world', as He said, for our salvation for all who would believe in His Son.  Therefore it makes sense to me to believe.  After all, what other hope do we have?

On another note, you said something earlier in another post about 'chugging' water in the army.  I don't know what chugging means, but were you in the army at one point, Bigmac?

[Big Mac]

That's needlessly complicated and unnecessary. And oddly it sounds like a classic cult.

I was in the Army briefly, and I got out before fighting Bush's religious and economic war. Chugging means you're drinking really fast. Often people who are chugging against each other will have people around them chanting, "Chug, chug, chug, chug, chug, chug!" I miss shooting the weapons in the Army. I guess I have to find a "special" dealer.

[Asmodean Prime]

That's great, Bigmac.  I didn't agree with Bush's war either.  But I greatly admire the ordinary soldiers who lay their lives on the line, in defence of their country and fellow citizens, even though the war is not of their making and choosing.  There is no wage packet that compensates for taking a bullet in my opinion, and I couldn't do it, especially if it's an unjust war.  Personally, I think they should have taken Saddam out the first time around, in gulf war one,  and saved us all this trouble and double standards regarding intelligence and fabricated weapons of mass destruction, etc.  They had a much better, and morally valid case back then, I think.

But, as a soldier, who took the brave step you did, you have just gone up in my estimation quite a few notches.  This will probably not mean anything to you, especially coming from me, but there you are.

[Big Mac]

Eh, being a soldier isn't as great as it's cracked up to be.

[Asmodean Prime]

Of course it's not all cracked up to be, Bigmac, that is exactly my point.  It is not all honour and glory, but drudgery and danger and a host of other unpleasant things.

But those who, for one reason or another, whether misguided or not, find themselves thrust into this unhealthy situation, do a great, unselfish and brave job, which is NOT appreciated by the population in general, and deserve our support, if not for their beliefs, then at least for their unselfish effort, putting themselves in a dangerous situation which is not understood or even considered by the vast majority of the 'stay at home' suburban dwelling masses.

I'd like to see most of these people subject themselves to such hardships before criticising these people.

BTW, you're still a brown-assed, salsa guzzling illegal immigrant, but you've earned a little respect, anyhow.  Ha ha

[Court]

Court, but don't you see:  we are all deserving of being 'dashed against the rocks, and being thrown into eternal fire'

It is only by the Grace of God that we are not.

I'll never get this perspective. God made us flawed, devises a punishment for these flaws, and then gives us a chance to be forgiven for the flaws (which we have through no fault of our own) by his "mercy". Give me a break.
Haven't you read Frankenstein? Do you really think the monster is to blame for his cruelty? Hell, no. It's all Dr. Frankenstein's fault.

So, you'd be okay with God dashing your kids against rocks, considering how deserving of it they are?

[Asmodean Prime]

court wrote:
"So, you'd be okay with God dashing your kids against rocks, considering how deserving of it they are?"

Of course not, court.  But I know that death awaits us all. Even for our kids.  If there is any hope at all to be had, I will take it.  Death, whether it is dashed against a rock, or hit by a car, or whatever.  We are all vulnerable and susceptible to it.  Since Jesus is the only one who rose from the dead, and therefore offers us hope, I will put my hope in Him.

Some hope is better than no hope.

[Asmodean Prime]

Onlyme...no longer...all grown...and they were step, and youngest was 6 when I entered the picture.  If you can do it, fine....your children, your decision.  It's tough though...but I wish you well.  I like Laetus's suggestion.

Chris:  sorry, mate, I can't follow your drift here.  Please clarify.  It doesn't make sense to me.  That's not surprising, as I said before, I'm not the sharpest tool in the box...but  what does it mean?.....

"..no longer...all grown...and they were step, and youngest was 6 when I entered the picture. "??

[Whitney]

onlyme.  It means that he married a person who already had kids.  By the time he got married to that women her youngest child was 6 years old already.  Now all the children are grown up and moved out of the house.

[Big Mac]

Of course it's not all cracked up to be, Bigmac, that is exactly my point.  It is not all honour and glory, but drudgery and danger and a host of other unpleasant things.

But those who, for one reason or another, whether misguided or not, find themselves thrust into this unhealthy situation, do a great, unselfish and brave job, which is NOT appreciated by the population in general, and deserve our support, if not for their beliefs, then at least for their unselfish effort, putting themselves in a dangerous situation which is not understood or even considered by the vast majority of the 'stay at home' suburban dwelling masses.

I'd like to see most of these people subject themselves to such hardships before criticising these people.

BTW, you're still a brown-assed, salsa guzzling illegal immigrant, but you've earned a little respect, anyhow.  Ha ha

Well I didn't nor do I ever want people's support when I joined the military. I despise this "Support Our Troops" nonsense. THough I have to admit, Mustang Ranch really stepped up and offered a free tryst to every soldier, sailor, airman, and marine. Now that's what I'm talking about. In reality, I am a mercenary at heart. I joined the military for college money and for the experience needed to go and work for Black Water or various other PMC's (Private Military Contracter). Like my profile says, I'm a hired gun. If the cause and money is decent enough (IE, I'm mowing down generally bad people and getting paid well for it) then I'm all for it. I don't want your admiration, respect, awe, or thanks. I did it for cold hard dead-presidents.

[Asmodean Prime]

Fair comment, Bigmac

But I still admire all the other soldiers who are where they are (I agree, because of cold, hard presidents), and who feel they are neglected or unappreciated.  I can't agree with you that supporting our troops is nonsense, even though I disagree with the reason for the war.

[McQ]

Of course it's not all cracked up to be, Bigmac, that is exactly my point.  It is not all honour and glory, but drudgery and danger and a host of other unpleasant things.

But those who, for one reason or another, whether misguided or not, find themselves thrust into this unhealthy situation, do a great, unselfish and brave job, which is NOT appreciated by the population in general, and deserve our support, if not for their beliefs, then at least for their unselfish effort, putting themselves in a dangerous situation which is not understood or even considered by the vast majority of the 'stay at home' suburban dwelling masses.

I'd like to see most of these people subject themselves to such hardships before criticising these people.

BTW, you're still a brown-assed, salsa guzzling illegal immigrant, but you've earned a little respect, anyhow.  Ha ha

Well I didn't nor do I ever want people's support when I joined the military. I despise this "Support Our Troops" nonsense. THough I have to admit, Mustang Ranch really stepped up and offered a free tryst to every soldier, sailor, airman, and marine. Now that's what I'm talking about. In reality, I am a mercenary at heart. I joined the military for college money and for the experience needed to go and work for Black Water or various other PMC's (Private Military Contracter). Like my profile says, I'm a hired gun. If the cause and money is decent enough (IE, I'm mowing down generally bad people and getting paid well for it) then I'm all for it. I don't want your admiration, respect, awe, or thanks. I did it for cold hard dead-presidents.

I joined for the fame, glory and especially, for the chicks.





Those assholes lied to me about the chicks.

and the fame....and glory....

:-P