Live Results

[Steeler]

And you back up your "facts" with more opinion and speculation. That's fine, like I said, I don't care to get into a serious in depth discussion about every detail.
These things could easily be busted up into their own threads, quick world be cool to hear everybody else's views add well.
Have a good day.

[Davin]

And you back up your "facts" with more opinion and speculation. That's fine, like I said, I don't care to get into a serious in depth discussion about every detail.

Did you not see the links to the available data? You're free to ignore the data all you want, but calling it "opinion" is just silly.

These things could easily be busted up into their own threads, quick world be cool to hear everybody else's views add well.
Have a good day.

Yes, they could. It would be great if you actually took the effort to read the available data instead of this broad, "just your opinions, man," stuff. I get it, you don't base your beliefs in reality, but I do. Our "opinions" are not equal.

I accept that you concede. Have fun.

[Steeler]

One more thing. You asked about whether I discredit dine bible passages as hot air and accept others. I believe the bible is horse poopy, I am an atheist after all.

No concession here.

[Recusant]

First off, you ask why hate illegals(sorry, that's what they are).

Calling people "illegals" dehumanizes them. A person who is in the US without proper documents is not a criminal. The civil law procedure that leads to deportation of an undocumented resident of the United States is not a criminal prosecution. The fact is that there undoubtedly are undocumented people serving in the US military right now. You may not be ignorant and prejudiced, but continuing to use the term bespeaks ignorance and prejudice. It's a slur, plain and simple.

[Tank]

And you back up your "facts" with more opinion and speculation. That's fine, like I said, I don't care to get into a serious in depth discussion about every detail.
These things could easily be busted up into their own threads, quick world be cool to hear everybody else's views add well.
Have a good day.

The best way to argue with Davin is not to argue with Davin. I gave up years ago. 

[Magdalena]

First off, you ask why hate illegals(sorry, that's what they are).

Calling people "illegals" dehumanizes them. A person who is in the US without proper documents is not a criminal. The civil law procedure that leads to deportation of an undocumented resident of the United States is not a criminal prosecution. The fact is that there undoubtedly are undocumented people serving in the US military right now. You may not be ignorant and prejudiced, but continuing to use the term bespeaks ignorance and prejudice. It's a slur, plain and simple.

Nice.

[Steeler]

First off, you ask why hate illegals(sorry, that's what they are).

Calling people "illegals" dehumanizes them. A person who is in the US without proper documents is not a criminal. The civil law procedure that leads to deportation of an undocumented resident of the United States is not a criminal prosecution. The fact is that there undoubtedly are undocumented people serving in the US military right now. You may not be ignorant and prejudiced, but continuing to use the term bespeaks ignorance and prejudice. It's a slur, plain and simple.

Well well, see, ya learn something new every day. I'll read up on that. Thanks Recusant. And you didn't even have to sound condescending. Lol
When I use that term, it really isn't meant to dehumanize them. Just part of the local speak. I knew one once, Hector. Hell of a nice guy. Fired of stomach cancer several years ago. That's another story though.

[Steeler]

And you back up your "facts" with more opinion and speculation. That's fine, like I said, I don't care to get into a serious in depth discussion about every detail.
These things could easily be busted up into their own threads, quick world be cool to hear everybody else's views add well.
Have a good day.

The best way to argue with Davin is not to argue with Davin. I gave up years ago. 

And you know that I knew that already!

[Steeler]

Not trying to start another deep discussion but I did find this on a quick Google search.

http://www.fairus.org/issue/illegal 

[Magdalena]

Not trying to start another deep discussion but I did find this on a quick Google search.

http://www.fairus.org/issue/illegal 

I found this, there, is this what you want us to read?

President-Elect Donald Trump's Stance on Immigration

President-elect Donald J. Trump's immigration plan is based on three core principles: that the U.S. must build a wall across the southern border, that current immigration laws must be fully enforced, and that the interests of American citizens must be put first. In crafting his plan, Trump sought advice from true immigration reformer Senator Jeff Sessions, Chairman of the Senate Subcommittee on Immigration and the National Interest.

FAIR disclaimer: Since securing the GOP nomination in late July, Trump has made a series of remarks that suggest he is open to changing his original positions on several immigration issues, including amnesty. However, his rhetoric has been extremely contradictory, raising serious questions about what he would actually do if elected.
...

"...and that the interests of American citizens must be put first..."
I hope Trump knows that there's a lot of Latino looking people in that group.

[Recusant]

Not trying to start another deep discussion but I did find this on a quick Google search.

http://www.fairus.org/issue/illegal 

I think you meant to link to this page. It's striking that your "quick Google" searches on this topic bring up pages from organizations that have rather dubious backgrounds. I don't think this is something you're doing on purpose, rather to me it's an indication that those who are attempting to drive the narrative in a negative way have managed to get their approach into the discussion, and many don't really question that approach.

I don't support open borders, but neither do I support the xenophobia (and unthinking reactionary rejection of those who have come to the US without following the proper channels) that Trump cynically popularized. It is no coincidence that he is supported by openly racist groups. If you can read the article that I linked and still believe it's fine to use that term because an organization like FAIR says so, then it's on you.

[Steeler]

Ahhh! My linky no worky! Let me try this one. Everything I'm finding is that it is a crime to enter the US by evading immigration officials.

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter 

[Steeler]

I posted that without reading your post Recusant. No, I didn't pay any attention to who FAIR was. I did have a page full of sites stating the same thing, that it is a misdemeanor first offense, felony for second, but I will read further..

Ok I'm understanding better. I see there is a legal difference between over staying a visa vs crossing without one. So it would depend on how you got here if I'm understanding.

[Recusant]

Ahhh! My linky no worky! Let me try this one. Everything I'm finding is that it is a crime to enter the US by evading immigration officials.

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter 

Yes, and there's the basic concept of "innocent until proven guilty." Have you bothered to read the article I linked?

[Magdalena]

Ahhh! My linky no worky! Let me try this one. Everything I'm finding is that it is a crime to enter the US by evading immigration officials.

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter 

I found this, there:
4 States Pass Recreational Marijuana Laws

Steeler, my man!