What would make me believe in God?

[Tank]

Over the years I've had this comment thrown at me.

"What would make you believe in God?"

Well I've thought of something that might make me consider the existence of an all powerful entity; let's call Him 'Q'. 

Q appears to all people on Earth at once and explains that from that moment forward the ratio of the diameter of a circle to its circumference will change from 3.14159265... to 3 But that all measurements prior to the 'modification' would still yield the original value, but all post 'modification' measurements would yield a result of 3. 

The universe would continue to behave as before in all aspects.

[Sandra Craft]

Can I not call him Q?  I hate that guy. 

I've decided that if somebody turned up on my doorstep, introduced himself as god and then created, right in front of me, a miniture universe, I would give his claim serious consideration after eliminating the possiblity of visual illusions, holograms, etc.

[En_Route]

Can I not call him Q?  I hate that guy. 

I've decided that if somebody turned up on my doorstep, introduced himself as god and then created, right in front of me, a miniture universe, I would give his claim serious consideration after eliminating the possiblity of visual illusions, holograms, etc.

I still wouldn't buy his make- your- own- world kit even if he offered an instalment plan and a family discount.

[DeterminedJuliet]

In order for me to believe in a God, I'd need to see how believing in God is at all relevant to the world or my life. Soooo, the world would pretty much have to be a different place entirely (God having some kind of measurable impact on human suffering would probably be the biggest factor, for me).

In order for me to believe in a QED*, I'd need to see how believing in QED* is at all relevant to the world or my life.

Is QED* in any way relevant to the way you live your life? Personal relativity has no bearing on reality. If God existed He would be part of reality and thus knowledge of His existence would simply come under the heading of 'facts'. Whether a fact has any bearing on one does not change the fact or that if it exists. Is that what you were getting at DJ? 

*QED = Quantum Electro Dynamics.

I'm not making statements about reality, I'm making statements about belief. God could very well exist right now, but I don't care because, why should I? To be honest, I don't really care about the reality of Quantum Electro Dynamics, either. I wouldn't argue that it doesn't exist, but that's because I do tend to defer to the consensus from the scientific community about these sorts of things. You don't have to have a thorough understanding of the reality around something to "believe" in it. Belief is a matter of acceptance. There are plenty of things that all of us accept as true without personally, rigorously, testing them. It is necessary to functioning in the world. 

Personally I would love to know if a god existed and what the nature of said entity was simple curiosity drives my desire to know. And also because if a god does exist and is interventionist in nature it would completely alter my view of reality. Discovering a god would also be the ultimate scientific triumph. Even if this god were deistic in nature I'd love to know he existed and how he created the universe I exist in.

I think that's pretty noble and, if there any murmurs of evidence that actually pointed towards this, it would probably pique my interest as well. As it is, pretty much all of the versions of "God" I've ever seen either chaulk everything up to a "mystery" or fairy-tale-ish allegory. I spent the better part of the first two decades of my life banging my head against a wall trying to make sense of the God that was presented to me. It kinda got old. I have a lot of immediate, tangible, lovely, things that I can focus on right in front of me, so that's where I like to exert my energies on the whole.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Personally I would love to know if a god existed and what the nature of said entity was simple curiosity drives my desire to know. And also because if a god does exist and is interventionist in nature it would completely alter my view of reality. Discovering a god would also be the ultimate scientific triumph. Even if this god were deistic in nature I'd love to know he existed and how he created the universe I exist in.

Even though I am a Christian and believe that God exists, I can't claim to know that God exists. So from that perspective, I'm in the same boat as you.  I would personally love to know about God's nature and how he relates to the reality that we see around us.  This desire guides a lot of my personal journey.  Right now my hypothesis is that for the most part God is deistic, but he intervenes and becomes theistic in dealing with individuals, simply in revealing himself and having a relationship with people - relatively small-scale intervention - helping guide people through the maze of life.  No creating specific hurricanes or earthquakes or the like.  The world pretty much acts according to the laws he instituted from the beginning, but he makes small differences through people, through human brains.  That's just a thought on my part, though.  I'm not making any grand claim here.

[Crow]

Personally I would love to know if a god existed and what the nature of said entity was simple curiosity drives my desire to know. And also because if a god does exist and is interventionist in nature it would completely alter my view of reality. Discovering a god would also be the ultimate scientific triumph. Even if this god were deistic in nature I'd love to know he existed and how he created the universe I exist in.

I on the other hand couldn't care less I don't think it would change anything important in my life, I would most likely be like "oh cool" then carry on. It would most likely change my perception on somethings but it's not like they are even important things, I might argue about them now but I don't actually think they are important in any form.

[Asmodean]

What would be a step towards me considering a "supernatural" being like god, is a less ridiculous concept of such a being. Personally, I think whoever thought up the Q Continuum was doing it as mockery of religion. So basically, make your god less like a cross between yourself and Q and find some evidence of its existence. Then, I can consider it.

[fester30]

I don't know that there would be anything to make me believe in the supernatural.  I would likely figure that whatever it is might be currently unexplainable, but that there were natural processes in place that make something exist that appears supernatural.  What would make me believe god exists?  I guess that depends on which god.  Are we talking about the creator?  The Christian?  Allah?  The Earth Mother?  I think for any specific god to be proven it would take a narrow set of proofs that support the believers claims about such god.  Otherwise, it is just something in the universe that we don't understand, so we call it a god.  Perhaps there is an alien race that is extremely far advanced relative to us that could convince much of the human race that it is god.

[Tank]

What would be a step towards me considering a "supernatural" being like god, is a less ridiculous concept of such a being. Personally, I think whoever thought up the Q Continuum was doing it as mockery of religion. So basically, make your god less like a cross between yourself and Q and find some evidence of its existence. Then, I can consider it.

I'm beginning to think mentioning Q was a bad idea. I simply mentioned him to give people a grip on the fact that I was considering an all powerful entity of some kind.

For me to consider an entity all powerful they would have to make themselves known to all humans at once, thus wiping the slate clean of prior expectations. They would then have to alter the universe in some apparently impossible way. That alteration would have to be verifiable and consistent. The alteration would then have to have no functional effect on the ongoing behaviour of the universe. Telling everybody on Earth that from now Pi equalled 3 and making it so would definitely give me cause for thought for the simple reason that in a maths class our teacher made us work out Pi with a ruler, cotton and a pair of scissors. IF Pi were caused to equal 3 I could carry out the same measurements and I would see for myself that the nature of reality had changed.

[Asmodean]

For me to consider an entity all powerful they would have to make themselves known to all humans at once, thus wiping the slate clean of prior expectations. They would then have to alter the universe in some apparently impossible way. That alteration would have to be verifiable and consistent. The alteration would then have to have no functional effect on the ongoing behaviour of the universe. Telling everybody on Earth that from now Pi equalled 3 and making it so would definitely give me cause for thought for the simple reason that in a maths class our teacher made us work out Pi with a ruler, cotton and a pair of scissors. IF Pi were caused to equal 3 I could carry out the same measurements and I would see for myself that the nature of reality had changed.

And you know the fun part?

Even if such a being came and did all that, there would still not be too many atheists in church. "God exists... Yeah, whatever, I still don't like that motherfucker" 

[Tank]

I don't know that there would be anything to make me believe in the supernatural.  I would likely figure that whatever it is might be currently unexplainable, but that there were natural processes in place that make something exist that appears supernatural.  What would make me believe god exists?  I guess that depends on which god.  Are we talking about the creator?  The Christian?  Allah?  The Earth Mother?  I think for any specific god to be proven it would take a narrow set of proofs that support the believers claims about such god.  Otherwise, it is just something in the universe that we don't understand, so we call it a god.  Perhaps there is an alien race that is extremely far advanced relative to us that could convince much of the human race that it is god.

My first thoughts on this are that all current views of god are human wishful thinking. If a god entity did change the value of Pi from 3.14.. to 3 then that makes no assertion that the god in question related in any way to our current pantheon of imaginings, past or present. And once this imaginary god entity had carried out its 'modification' it would have passed from supernatural to natural because it would have a solid grounding in reality.

There is always the issue of the 'superior alien' appearing to be godlike. This is why my requirements wouldn't make me believe in god until they had been exhaustively tested.  But of course one can never be certain. To me the scary part of Institutionalised Superstition if the effectiveness with which it instils in too many of its followers an absolute certainty of its truth.

[Asmodean]

Oh, by the way, Q in Voyager was awesome. 

[Crow]

I don't know that there would be anything to make me believe in the supernatural.  I would likely figure that whatever it is might be currently unexplainable, but that there were natural processes in place that make something exist that appears supernatural.  What would make me believe god exists?  I guess that depends on which god.  Are we talking about the creator?  The Christian?  Allah?  The Earth Mother?  I think for any specific god to be proven it would take a narrow set of proofs that support the believers claims about such god.  Otherwise, it is just something in the universe that we don't understand, so we call it a god.  Perhaps there is an alien race that is extremely far advanced relative to us that could convince much of the human race that it is god.

My first thoughts on this are that all current views of god are human wishful thinking. If a god entity did change the value of Pi from 3.14.. to 3 then that makes no assertion that the god in question related in any way to our current pantheon of imaginings, past or present. And once this imaginary god entity had carried out its 'modification' it would have passed from supernatural to natural because it would have a solid grounding in reality.

There is always the issue of the 'superior alien' appearing to be godlike. This is why my requirements wouldn't make me believe in god until they had been exhaustively tested.  But of course one can never be certain. To me the scary part of Institutionalised Superstition if the effectiveness with which it instils in too many of its followers an absolute certainty of its truth.

Though those aliens could in theory be our gods like in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.

[Tank]

For me to consider an entity all powerful they would have to make themselves known to all humans at once, thus wiping the slate clean of prior expectations. They would then have to alter the universe in some apparently impossible way. That alteration would have to be verifiable and consistent. The alteration would then have to have no functional effect on the ongoing behaviour of the universe. Telling everybody on Earth that from now Pi equalled 3 and making it so would definitely give me cause for thought for the simple reason that in a maths class our teacher made us work out Pi with a ruler, cotton and a pair of scissors. IF Pi were caused to equal 3 I could carry out the same measurements and I would see for myself that the nature of reality had changed.

And you know the fun part?

Even if such a being came and did all that, there would still not be too many atheists in church. "God exists... Yeah, whatever, I still don't like that motherfucker" 

I like the point. But would there actually be a lot of atheists that when faced with unequivocal evidence of the existence of a god not be interested in the nature of said entity. I'm not talking about Allah here I'm talking about a real god not a made up fantasy. Personally I'd think it would be the atheists that would be the first people chatting to this new found entity. It's the fundamental theists that would be in absolute denial. A theist generally has already made their mind up that a particular 'God' exists. Most atheists (nominally 75%) are in the 'not yet proven' camp

[Asmodean]

Yes, but you see, that's a different point entirely. When most fundies would likely turn to praying 24/7, most atheists and some less brainwashed religious people would likely attempt to study, quantify and understand the workings of such a being.