Army

[bitter_sweet_symphony]

Well, the titles summarizes this adequately. Imagine a hypothetical situation, where there is a real threat posed by a group (terrorists, or government) to your country and you are needed to fight for your country. You believe that your country's foreign policies are to be blamed for the situation, but on the other hand the "enemy" is attacking your country's cities. Would you enlist in the army? Why? If I were faced with such a situation, I'd probably hesitate till I was killed in an enemy bombing :?

How do you feel about the army in general? Yesterday, I met my brother-in-law, who is in the army, for the first time. A few things he said really disturbed me. I don't know what to make of the country's military. Does it make any difference to you if a person is in the army?

Peace.

p.s I have no intentions of offending anyone or criticize any particular country's military.

[tacoma_kyle]

It all depends---difficult question.

I dont really know how to answer that---but if I did school over again (I am about 66% through) I would enlist first---for a few years.

I basically have no problem with it, but at this point in my education it would be dumb cause I'd forget a lot of things.

[Will]

I'd never join any public or private military. I don't trust the intellect of anyone enough to unquestionably follow orders. If my country actually needs defending from a real threat, I'll just go there and fight on my own.

My best friend in high school, who had money issues, decided to join the military despite my protests. I told him to let his recruitment officer know that he speaks Japanese (which is true, despite the fact he's latino). He's now stationed in Japan with his wife, safe and sound. Had I not told him to say that, he'd be in Afghanistan harassing poor farmers or fighting opium warlords or weakly searching for OBL in a place he hasn't been for years. Or maybe he would have ended up in Iraq fighting the same guys he bribed last week because the police force there is so poorly paid that any bribes just buy them and the military leadership has no clue how to get out because the commander in chimp won't let them go home. Either way he'd be in mortal danger in a place the US military has no business being for one reason: money for the corrupt in charge.

[Squid]

One thing to keep in mind when appraising why people join the military - they don't support the government or the individuals that comprise it necessarily but the populace at large, their country.

I served partly because of a tradition in my family and secondly because I believe in my country's potential (which I still cling to hope that it can be realized which is why I'm such a big scientific literacy advocate) and all there is that is good about this place.  I could care less about the people who govern it as I thing they are doing more harm than good.  Many enlisted would agree that it's not about hailing the commander in chief - it's meaningless ceremony, it's about protecting your family and friends, your home, and the guy next to you.

I do understand that many people join the military for the wrong reasons - to get to kill, to escape a bad life, military or jail ultimatums and so forth but those who do join of their own choice I think would agree about why they serve(d).

[Mister Joy]

I'd never join any public or private military. I don't trust the intellect of anyone enough to unquestionably follow orders. If my country actually needs defending from a real threat, I'll just go there and fight on my own.

Depends on what defines a 'real threat', for me. If your homeland was being invaded, bombed to buggery every day & so on, then I think you'd have to be mad not to want to help out in whatever way possible. Unfortunately, on your own you can't do a whole lot but an organisation with a hierarchy of command can. I'd join the military, for example, if I was living in the World War I or II years. I could trust the intent of any authority above me in a case like that because they'd be as directly threatened as I am. With the Iraq war, however, it's very easy to question people's motivations, particularly when they start flexing tactics purely for the sake of personal public image (which seems trivial and unrealistic if we were to assume that all of the spin they'd have us believe is true). An example is our government withdrawing British troops. I think it's a very good thing that they are but it nevertheless goes to show that whatever supposedly justified motive they had to go in there in the first place is now outweighed by the threat of New Labour losing popularity (God forbid!)

So, to answer bitter_sweet_symphony's question, no I wouldn't join unless the people I care about, not excluding myself, were in actual danger.

[Will]

On your own you can be a bomber and if you get captured you can't give anything away. Quite frankly if there was something serious happening on US soil a maquis type resistance would do better than an organized military.

[Bella]

There are some very select things that I am willing to die for. "My family" pretty much sums it up. If my family were actually in danger, I would fight. If it's about a bunch of money and politics *cough* Bush *cough* then hell no.

[McQ]

The short answer for me is yes, and I already did serve in the US Army. Six years active duty. Much of the same reasons as Squid listed.

It's a complicated topic for certain, as seen by the varied answers here already. Definitely a personal thing for people.

[Will]

While I choose not to serve, I don't judge people who do (unless they torture people or break the law, of course, and they can go fornicate themselves on a bayonet). My grandfather was career Army and fought bravely in the Pacific in WWII and in Korea, though he didn't agree with why we were in Korea at the time or later as he explained it to me.

[McQ]

To tag onto what Will said about breaking the law or torturing people...

one of the toughest things for people to wrestle with is when they feel an entire war is unjust (funny how we've been able to even differentiate just from unjust wars throughout history). It's really difficult for instance, when a soldier who joins the Army in good conscience, and with a trust in his country, comes to believe that his leaders and his own country are acting unjustly, or even illegally. You can't predict things like that happening.

The thing to realize is that as soldiers, we had the ability to disobey illegal orders. It's harder to do than people think of course, because in war, the lines become so blurred. But the obligation to disobey immoral or illegal orders is there. It just sucks when you're a soldier and feel an entire war is unjustified. You have no backing then and would probably end up totally screwed.

BTW, this applies to all armed services people, not just soldiers.

This is a very interesting topic, too.

[SteveS]

Clear threat to the whole country?  Of course - that's kind of a no-brainer.  I considered going military - even spent a few days in a program at the Naval Academy in Annapolis (so you could get a taste of what it would be like if you went there).  I've always loved "things nautical", so for me if I was going to join any service the Navy seemed like the natural one.

In the end, though, I decided not to - I think the rigid structure scared me off.  I'm not much of a "follower" in the end analysis (wicked independent streak).  But - it was pulling on my heart strings enough for me to seriously consider it.

Here's an interesting question:

Does it make any difference to you if a person is in the army?

Generally speaking I am pre-disposed to a favorable reaction if a person is in the army.  Probably says a lot about me.

Look - the politicians frig things up.  I get that and I agree with that.  They also make mistakes.  I get that, too.  But - in the end, I do think there's a lot about my country that's worth protecting and I see the military service personnel as making it their personal responsibility to do the "protecting".  I did not make that choice.  I will always view service people with a measure of respect for having the courage to put themselves in harm's way for my benefit, especially as I have not done this for them.

In fact, I think we all owe them a debt.  The least we can do for them is to try to make sure the politicians are only deploying them into justifiable situations and then to make sure they receive the tools, equipment, and support to do their job as safely as possible.

[Smarmy Of One]

I was in the army when I was 19. I thought it a better idea to keep structure in my life for a while after high school so I wasn't just floundering around. I got my private stripes  and was honourably discharged so I could go to art school.

The Canadian army is currently in Afghanistan as part of a NATO/UN effort to fight back the Taliban. I think this is a just cause. The Taliban are radicals and can only do harm to the Afghani people.

I wish that security forces from other nations would step up a bit more on the front lines as quite a few Canadian soldiers have been dying.

If everything went to hell there and Canada was somehow directly threatened by the Taliban, I would probably enlist.

The current US invasion of Iraq, however, I cannot support and would not fight in. There is nothing that can be said to convince me that the Iraq invasion wasn't designed to create instability in the region so that corporate interests could profit from the chaos for decades to come with lucrative no-bid government contracts.

Companies like Haliburton and it's former CEO, Dick Cheney are not just leeching Iraq they are draining America as well.

I don't doubt that 99.99% of all US soldiers are honourable. I think that joining for liberty and fighting to protect you country and democracy are are noble causes. I personally don't believe that this is what American soldiers are fighting and dying for in this case. I think they are being taken advantage of and used by the Bush administration for the purposes of war profiteering. This is the greatest crime of all.

The thing that I HATE the most though, are those who staunchly defend the Iraq war and the Bush administration and refuse to themselves enlist. These people are nothing short of cowards.

[SteveS]

Well put, Smarmy.  I agree that one tragic issue with the Iraq war is that it seems to rob the service men and women of the respect and gratitude that they deserve.

[Big Mac]

I left the Army when I realized I wasn't serving for what I thought I was. Now, if I could only form a decent Militia.....that'd be delightful. I still believe a man (and yes, woman as well) needs to be versed in the elementary ideas of warfare. Your country may need you someday to beat the Huns back.

I believe every citizen has a duty to defend their country, homeland, and soil from all enemies, foreign and sadly domestic. One who is not willing to defend their freedom never deserved to have it in the first place.

As for questioning someone's intelligence of "following orders" does not understand the life. It's different from any other job you will ever have. You are handed a rifle, ammo, grenades....bayonets.....sorry, I get excited over weapons. You are told that you will learn how to use them and then blow someone's head off (well, you're supposed to aim center-mass since you are more likely to hit them) because they will be attacking you and will do bad things to your country.

Whether that is true or not is up to debate, but that's very possible. The intense nature of combat demands that soldiers not overthink their actions. Thinking leads to hesitation and that leads to your death.

War is horrible, there is nothing romantic or glorious about it. Those who delight in war have never fought in one and probably would fare the worst in combat. I remember reading about the nice Finnish gentlemen who put 500+ Soviet boys into the ground with his sniper antics. Apparently he was not very open about the experience and from many people's testimony was a very "humble and quiet man". He did not boast about his amazing ability to kill invading soldiers with a rifle. I'm sure he spent many nights upset over what he had done.

My great-grandfather fought in the Mexican Revolution/Civil War of the early 20th century. My mother would describe how he would never turn off the lights in his home, even when sleeping. I can only imagine what he saw and did.

Is the military evil? No, it's a necessary thing. A country without a military is a country whose sovereignty is in question. Military's cannot be evil per se, but the men who lead them can be as well as the ranks of the led can possess evil qualities.

Since nature is violent and humans being probably the most violent in nature, it is a necessary tool in our world.

Sorry, but I find it interesting when people do not like the military but want to be free.

And kudos Smarmy. Every time I hear an able-body fellow speak of how great the Iraq war was needed, I'd like to ask why they haven't enlisted and fought the good fight. Their answers never fail to be pathetic.

[MommaSquid]

I still believe a man (and yes, woman as well) needs to be versed in the elementary ideas of warfare. Your country may need you someday to beat the Huns back...I believe every citizen has a duty to defend their country, homeland, and soil from all enemies, foreign and sadly domestic. One who is not willing to defend their freedom never deserved to have it in the first place.

Hear, hear.  





Can I get a "Hoorah!"?