Old Testament Pfft, Jesus is the MAN!

[Ali]

Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

I've actually always liked that quote.  I kind of read it as meaning "Don't go looking for hypothetical things to worry yourself over; there are enough things to worry about in the here and now."  I say that to myself sometimes when my mind is going too many places at once.

Except, I'm sure Ali, you go to great trouble to ensure your child's future is bright.

True.  I guess I've never really taken it to mean "Don't plan for the future"; just again, more "don't go looking for a reason to stress yourself out."  Of course, that is a single quote.  Some of the others definitely look more like "don't plan for the future."

[Ecurb Noselrub]

There is more than enough food in the world to feed all 7 billion of us. The reason people starve is because of people.  God has given sufficient food, and expects us to distribute it, just like the disciples did with the loaves and fishes.  We have failed, not God.

But

"But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

This is a personal statement, not an address to humankind as a whole but to each individual.
The god is not providing food for the needy individual regardless if that individual seeks the kingdom of god.

God fails on his promise to the individuals.

The written word was "and all these things shall be added to you", not with the dependency that humanity sorts itself out with regards to food distribution.

And when the written word says
"Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?'
Are you assuming this "not worry about what to eat" is with regards to food production and not food distribution?
So we are to worry about food distribution????

This poorly articulated statement has cost millions of lives, who wrote the bible? It wasn't the inspired word of god was it?

Can you give the name of a single individual who starved to death because he/she followed this particular teaching with faith?

[Ecurb Noselrub]

There is more than enough food in the world to feed all 7 billion of us. The reason people starve is because of people.  God has given sufficient food, and expects us to distribute it, just like the disciples did with the loaves and fishes.  We have failed, not God.

Soooo, does this mean that if you give thanks before your meal, you should be giving thanks to the people who sent it to you and not God? Only seems fair. If God doesn't get the blame for people starving, he shouldn't get the thanks for people eating.

The food has been provided. It is there in abundance.  God entrusted the world to us.  He's the manufacturer, we are the distributors.  If you have food, you should thank God and those who distributed it.  If you don't have food, you should ask God to slap the distributors up-side the head. 

[Ecurb Noselrub]

There is more than enough food in the world to feed all 7 billion of us. The reason people starve is because of people.  God has given sufficient food, and expects us to distribute it, just like the disciples did with the loaves and fishes.  We have failed, not God.

If I hire some incompetent fool to manage my distribution department and not fire him when he demonstrates his incompetence and foolishness, then the failure is mine.

...So how exactly did your supposed god not fail?

You are correct that God has put us in charge of the earth.  The food has been provided through the creation.  God did his part.  If we are incompetent, we will account for it at the end of the fiscal year when the performance evaluations are done.  I'm involved in food distribution to the poor.  I expect to receive a bonus at the end of the fiscal year. 

[Asmodean]

the name of a single individual who starved to death because he/she followed this particular teaching with faith?

Ooh! ooh! Where was this post about this thing... This VERY thing?  ???

[Ecurb Noselrub]

the name of a single individual who starved to death because he/she followed this particular teaching with faith?

Ooh! ooh! Where was this post about this thing... This VERY thing?  ???

I'm waiting.

[Asmodean]

I'm involved in food distribution to the poor.  I expect to receive a bonus at the end of the fiscal year.  

You will not. No self-respecting corporate suit gives a damn about the poor. Some throw an occasional wad of cash at them just so they can ride off into the sunset on their tiny white horses, but they got where they are by caring about their own needs and wants before everyone else's. And the Abrahamic god seems a particularly nasty kind of CEO.

I'm waiting.

I don't remember the name of that blog with the story from some paper, but there is this for starters (although it does fail the "this particular" part)

[Stevil]

This poorly articulated statement has cost millions of lives, who wrote the bible? It wasn't the inspired word of god was it?

Can you give the name of a single individual who starved to death because he/she followed this particular teaching with faith?

It is hard to quantify the in action of people, and what lead to that in action.

But, I certainly presume out of 2 billion Christians, that some of them belief what is written in the bible and have faith that if they follow what is written then things will turn out fine.

It seems to me the Christian charity groups who go to these impoverished nations and put effort into supplying food and water, irrigation etc, well these people could be deemed as "doubting Thomas"s. Which is fine, but not as "Good" as the true believers whom don't doubt.
These true believer, (and I am willing to bet, out of 2 billion Christians that there are some), ought to go to impoverished nations and instruct the starving, not to worry about food, but instead to look for the kingdom of heaven, and that god will provide because god knows what they need.
So, it is this Faith as taught in the Bible, that I am suggesting has caused millions of people to starve to death, because as we very well know. God does not provide, not simply because a person seeks the kingdom of heaven. To not worry about food is to sign your own and your families own death warrant.


Ecurb - can you please point out in the bible where it makes a distinction between food production and food distribution, that people shouldn't worry about food production but should worry about food distribution.


An analogy for you.
Hurricane Katrina hits.
Many, many people are left stranded without food or water.
The government sends a message, a promise that all people do not need to worry about food, that there is more than enough food in the country to feed everyone. The government then does nothing to distribute food to the hurricane hit area. People starve to death.
Do you think the starving and dying people have reason to have a grievance against the government?

[Tank]

There is more than enough food in the world to feed all 7 billion of us. The reason people starve is because of people.  God has given sufficient food, and expects us to distribute it, just like the disciples did with the loaves and fishes.  We have failed, not God.

Soooo, does this mean that if you give thanks before your meal, you should be giving thanks to the people who sent it to you and not God? Only seems fair. If God doesn't get the blame for people starving, he shouldn't get the thanks for people eating.

God doesn't exist. So he isn't due any thanks for anything whatsoever.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Ecurb - can you please point out in the bible where it makes a distinction between food production and food distribution, that people shouldn't worry about food production but should worry about food distribution.

The particular passage that you referenced says that if one seeks the kingdom of God first, all things will be added (all things meaning the necessities of life).  Just because one is a Christian does not mean that person is "seeking first the kingdom of God."  I'm sure there are Christians who have starved to death.  Were they "seeking first the kingdom of God?"  I don't know.  That is why one needs to look at the particular case to see if the Christian who starved was focused on the kingdom of God or not.

With respect to food production vs. food distribution, I can point to two teachings of Jesus.  First, he said in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5, I'm too lazy right now to look up the verse) that God sends his sun on the good and the evil and his rain on the just and the unjust, or something to that effect.  To me, this means that God has generally provided sufficient food, etc. for all of us, regardless of our beliefs, actions, etc. to live.  This is true.  There is enough food and water on the planet to nourish all of us.  No question about it.

In the story about feeding the 5,000, (again, I can't remember exactly where this is, but this story is in all four gospels), in one place Jesus said "you give them something to eat."  Then he provided the food (the loaves and fishes) and the disciples distributed them.  So, here is a distinction between production and distribution:  Jesus produces, the disciples distribute.  Now, I'm convinced that one of the most important things that believers (the "church") can do is help the poor.  If we did more of this and less politicking, people wouldn't hate us so much.  The church should be involved in distributing God's bounty to the needy.  If we did this, the state wouldn't have to do so much.  But we don't do a very good job.  In some areas the church does a good job, but not very many.  Of course, in some areas, all efforts at distribution are thwarted by adverse political forces (North Korea) or religious forces (fundamental Islam).  Eventually, God's judgment will come, beginning at "the house of God" - the church.  

[Ecurb Noselrub]

There is more than enough food in the world to feed all 7 billion of us. The reason people starve is because of people.  God has given sufficient food, and expects us to distribute it, just like the disciples did with the loaves and fishes.  We have failed, not God.

Soooo, does this mean that if you give thanks before your meal, you should be giving thanks to the people who sent it to you and not God? Only seems fair. If God doesn't get the blame for people starving, he shouldn't get the thanks for people eating.

God doesn't exist. So he isn't due any thanks for anything whatsoever.

I understand that this is the position of the vast majority of people on this forum.  I'm not trying to preach here, I'm just trying to respond to the challenge presented from the perspective of a believer.  Hopefully that is understood.  

[Tank]

There is more than enough food in the world to feed all 7 billion of us. The reason people starve is because of people.  God has given sufficient food, and expects us to distribute it, just like the disciples did with the loaves and fishes.  We have failed, not God.

Soooo, does this mean that if you give thanks before your meal, you should be giving thanks to the people who sent it to you and not God? Only seems fair. If God doesn't get the blame for people starving, he shouldn't get the thanks for people eating.

God doesn't exist. So he isn't due any thanks for anything whatsoever.

I understand that this is the position of the vast majority of people on this forum.  I'm not trying to preach here, I'm just trying to respond to the challenge presented from the perspective of a believer.  Hopefully that is understood.  

It also happens to be the truth.

[Stevil]

If we shouldn't worry about food production, then why do we bother farming?

Why are there Christians who own farms?

Why do countries have restrictions on fishing oceans and lakes?

God will provide, we simply shouldn't bother about stuff like this.

[Asmodean]

Of course, in some areas, all efforts at distribution are thwarted by adverse political forces (North Korea)

Isn't at least a big chunk of that problem in that them would-be-do-gooders are trying to set conditions for helping?

[Ecurb Noselrub]

If we shouldn't worry about food production, then why do we bother farming?

Why are there Christians who own farms?

Why do countries have restrictions on fishing oceans and lakes?

God will provide, we simply shouldn't bother about stuff like this.

We all do what we are capable of doing, what we are skilled at accomplishing.  This teaching of Jesus doesn't mean that we don't work, it means that we don't worry.  Jesus worked as a carpenter, Paul as a tent maker, Peter & Co. as fishermen.  Christians have always worked and have understood that they were supposed to work, at something.  The teaching is focused on not having anxiety and worry about tomorrow.  Do your job, trust in God, and it will be OK.