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"Because people with faith have better hearts"

musicality

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"Because people with faith have better hearts"
« on: April 22, 2012, 04:57:05 AM »
I absolutely love my mom and brother. We have an amazing relationship. They love me unconditionally and don't treat me any differently, but I realized how much I have to avoid the subject on my atheism.

My brother knows about my atheism and is okay with it, but I know he gets uncomfortable sometimes. He doesn't know how to respond when I tell him about the books I read and the arguments made against god. Recently, I told him how I posted/replied my argument when people started posting that "Einstein's Story" on Facebook about the heat and cold and that proves gods existence. And I saw him get a bit upset and tell me I should just leave them alone. That we should just let them believe what they believe and I just do whatever I do. I agreed. And he quickly changed the subject. But when you constantly see a contradictory story being told over and over and over, I don't think sharing my opinion about it would harm someone completely. Maybe just give some perspective.

But what really got me tonight was…

While driving with my mom and brother back home from having a delicious and nice dinner, my mom told me about this house we were going to check out that we might move in to. She felt iffy about the paperwork so she showed me the emails that were sent between her and the owner of the house. He is a really devout Christian and was so sure that God sent us to him to rent the property while he was away. I laughed at the comment and she said "Well at least they have faith."

Me: "What's that supposed to mean?"
Mom: "Well I'm more comfortable with this property than the other one because he has faith."
Me: "I don't get it"
Mom: "Because people with faith have better hearts. They treat people better and are more considerate."
Me: "Uhm…I haven't exactly encountered that all the time mom"
Mom: "Maybe that's your generation"

I shut up after that. I don't think she was really thinking how that comment would affect me but it definitely hurt. She might argue that the reason why I am a good person is because I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school for so many years. She always said "Im glad I put you in catholic school first. It gave you a good foundation with morals..and such and such." Obviously, I don't agree with that.

(You know..It's funny though because it was catholic school that shoved the bible and religion down my throat, and not my parents. We did some prayers at home but it wasn't mandatory. The only thing I was forced to do was go to church.)

So...

I am an atheist. I love unconditionally. I treat people with the upmost respect. When I have opinions and/or arguments, I try to state them with consideration and tact. I have many friends that are believers and non-believers and they all like me for me. I am a good person whether or not being in Catholic school aided in that.

Sorry about the venting…this is actually the first time i've written about something like this…feels kinda good.
"Music is prophecy. Its styles are ahead of the rest of society because
it explores, much faster than material reality can, the entire range of
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Jimmy

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Re: "Because people with faith have better hearts"
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2012, 05:31:34 AM »
Thanks for sharing musicality! To do so can be very cathartic :)

I've run into similar conversations with friends and family and what I always tell them, when they mention that theists are kinder than atheists, is that it is simply not true.

I'm sure you know,  as does everyone else here, that kindness is a personality trait and has nothing to do with a belief in a god. In fact, showing kindness for kindness sake is more virtuous than being kind to avoid eternal damnation for numerous reasons.
For if there be no Prospect beyond the Grave, the inference is certainly right, Let us eat and drink, les us enjoy what we delight in, for to morrow we shall die.   ~John Locke~

musicality

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Re: "Because people with faith have better hearts"
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2012, 06:00:37 AM »
Thanks for sharing musicality! To do so can be very cathartic :)

I've run into similar conversations with friends and family and what I always tell them, when they mention that theists are kinder than atheists, is that it is simply not true.

I'm sure you know,  as does everyone else here, that kindness is a personality trait and has nothing to do with a belief in a god. In fact, showing kindness for kindness sake is more virtuous than being kind to avoid eternal damnation for numerous reasons.

thank you Jimmy! this is another reason why I joined this forum. I know there are others like me out there who don't need the existence of god to tell them to be a good person. That we can have a nice conversation WITHOUT saying "Oh it's because you read the bible.." or "She's a man/woman of God…u can tell.." And it's nice to know that u along with everyone here, can understand that.
"Music is prophecy. Its styles are ahead of the rest of society because
it explores, much faster than material reality can, the entire range of
possibilities."

Sweetdeath

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Re: "Because people with faith have better hearts"
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2012, 06:32:29 AM »
People with fairh are kinder,huh?

Ask her if she's ever read a little story about the Crusades,  or all the bombng in the middle east. The people who blow themselves up actually have a lot of faith. ::)
Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

“I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn’t mend our wounds.

ThinkAnarchy

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Re: "Because people with faith have better hearts"
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2012, 07:05:01 AM »
First of all, thanks for sharing.

I would have had to ask, assuming I thought of it quick enough, if faith would fix a leaking roof.

I look for proactive landlords. Ones that will fix the roof and not simply pray for god to knock a tree over to plug the hole.

« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 07:08:17 AM by ThinkAnarchy »
"He that displays too often his wife and his wallet is in danger of having both of them borrowed." -Ben Franklin

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Siz

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Re: "Because people with faith have better hearts"
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2012, 07:58:24 AM »
First of all, thanks for sharing.

I would have had to ask, assuming I thought of it quick enough, if faith would fix a leaking roof.

I look for proactive landlords. Ones that will fix the roof and not simply pray for god to knock a tree over to plug the hole.



Reminds me of the quote:
"Two working hands accomplishes much more than 1000 hands held in prayer" (by I can't remember who).

I don't exactly know how that must feel, Music, but it can't be nice. You can't be too cross with your Mum; like most religious she's only regurgitating what she's been fed. She (and millions like her) have never stopped, stepped aside from her life and really looked at her beliefs from outside the box. To have done that yourself, particularly within the confines of a religious family, is admirable. Perhaps she's never had anyone as wise as you close to her to help her step outside the box.

When one sleeps on the floor one need not worry about falling out of bed - Anton LaVey

The universe is a cold, uncaring void. The key to happiness isn't a search for meaning, it's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually you'll be dead!

musicality

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Re: "Because people with faith have better hearts"
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2012, 08:07:10 AM »
First of all, thanks for sharing.

I would have had to ask, assuming I thought of it quick enough, if faith would fix a leaking roof.

I look for proactive landlords. Ones that will fix the roof and not simply pray for god to knock a tree over to plug the hole.



Reminds me of the quote:
"Two working hands accomplishes much more than 1000 hands held in prayer" (by I can't remember who).

I don't exactly know how that must feel, Music, but it can't be nice. You can't be too cross with your Mum; like most religious she's only regurgitating what she's been fed. She (and millions like her) have never stopped, stepped aside from her life and really looked at her beliefs from outside the box. To have done that yourself, particularly within the confines of a religious family, is admirable. Perhaps she's never had anyone as wise as you close to her to help her step outside the box.

Thank you. I agree with you…I just have to find the right words to say how I feel. She's a bit sensitive and was a little upset when she found out I stopped going to church. I hope to share my thoughts and how I feel one day..but as of right now, the time isn't right.

But its places like this forum that help me realize I am not alone when a lot times I do.
"Music is prophecy. Its styles are ahead of the rest of society because
it explores, much faster than material reality can, the entire range of
possibilities."

musicality

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Re: "Because people with faith have better hearts"
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2012, 08:10:36 AM »
People with fairh are kinder,huh?

Ask her if she's ever read a little story about the Crusades,  or all the bombng in the middle east. The people who blow themselves up actually have a lot of faith. ::)

I wish I was quick minded enough to say something…but I was more hurt and angry & I didn't want to say anything I'd regret. Plus, I didn't want to hurt her feelings.
"Music is prophecy. Its styles are ahead of the rest of society because
it explores, much faster than material reality can, the entire range of
possibilities."

ThinkAnarchy

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Re: "Because people with faith have better hearts"
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2012, 08:20:30 AM »

Thank you. I agree with you…I just have to find the right words to say how I feel. She's a bit sensitive and was a little upset when she found out I stopped going to church. I hope to share my thoughts and how I feel one day..but as of right now, the time isn't right.

But its places like this forum that help me realize I am not alone when a lot times I do.

You are certainly not alone. I'm still shocked by how similar my experiences are to others on this forum. Like you I was raised Catholic. And like you, my family said similar things. It is certainly nice to know other people have been able to deal with these problems, and in most cases fix the issues with their family. The way I and others handled it may not work for you, but it at least gives some more insight and ideas in regards to how to change the dynamic in your family.

I hope the time presents itself soon because I know how miserable your current situation can be.
"He that displays too often his wife and his wallet is in danger of having both of them borrowed." -Ben Franklin

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -credited to Franklin, but not sure.

Tank

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Re: "Because people with faith have better hearts"
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2012, 09:08:52 AM »
{snip}
Sorry about the venting…this is actually the first time i've written about something like this…feels kinda good.
Venting is of the best things about this place. You can also test ideas that you wouldn't be able to in normal life. Vent/rant and be a Happy Atheist!
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

En_Route

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Re: "Because people with faith have better hearts"
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2012, 09:02:38 PM »
I think it depends on the religion. I'd bet that Buddhists and Quakers are kinder than average, Presbyterians less.
Some ideas are so stupid only an intellectual could believe them (Orwell).

Amicale

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Re: "Because people with faith have better hearts"
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2012, 03:36:17 AM »
*hugs Musicality* (yes, I'm a hugger, sorry  :D )

I completely understand where you're coming from, and I'm sorry that your family members don't always take your feelings into consideration. I know they love you, just as I know mine love me. Like you, I went to a Catholic school (for at least a while), and was raised Catholic, although I'm an ex-theist atheist now.

It's not entirely the fault of our parents that they think the way they do. They were raised to think like that, and most of them grew up with the "good people go to church" mentality. In my personal opinion (my opinion and 2 bucks will buy you a coffee)... it's best to not answer with sarcastic jabs, or to lash out. If something is said that is upsetting, I've personally found it helpful to just react gently, and lovingly, as much as possible. To speak in defense, sure, but to be polite and reasonable. The last thing we want to do is accidentally prove them right.  :P

My mom is like yours. A wonderful woman whose feelings I'd never want to hurt, but she sometimes assumes that people who are religious (read: Christian) must be better, nicer, and kinder people than those who do not believe in a God. Slowly, very slowly, she's coming to realize that people who don't believe can also be very kind, very caring folks -- and in some cases, kinder than some believers, even. I think your mom will slowly come around to seeing that too, when she sees what an awesome, kind daughter she has in you, even though you don't believe the way she does. :)

Anyways, here anytime you need to talk -- we all are. This forum is WONDERFUL for when you need to rant... so, rant away anytime, just let it out. You're among friends here. :)



"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan

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Re: "Because people with faith have better hearts"
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2012, 08:13:58 AM »
Sorry about the venting…this is actually the first time i've written about something like this…feels kinda good.

What, you think we all got to be happy atheists by just sitting around talkin'bout the weather?

Rant away! We don't mind. ;D


"If scientist means 'not the dumbest motherfucker in the room,' I guess I'm a scientist, then."
-Unknown Smartass-

musicality

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Re: "Because people with faith have better hearts"
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2012, 08:19:25 AM »
Sorry about the venting…this is actually the first time i've written about something like this…feels kinda good.

What, you think we all got to be happy atheists by just sitting around talkin'bout the weather?

Rant away! We don't mind. ;D

Haha thank you! This is the first time I've written of any experience with my change to atheism. And I don't really like whining…So I guess every time I vent I feel like I'm complaining. But this forum is a really friendly place to be who I am and say what I need to. so THANKS HAF!! and everyone who has responded here :) Slowly but surely finding the strength to be more open with myself.
"Music is prophecy. Its styles are ahead of the rest of society because
it explores, much faster than material reality can, the entire range of
possibilities."

Sweetdeath

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Re: "Because people with faith have better hearts"
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2012, 07:46:25 PM »
Sorry about the venting…this is actually the first time i've written about something like this…feels kinda good.

What, you think we all got to be happy atheists by just sitting around talkin'bout the weather?

Rant away! We don't mind. ;D

Haha thank you! This is the first time I've written of any experience with my change to atheism. And I don't really like whining…So I guess every time I vent I feel like I'm complaining. But this forum is a really friendly place to be who I am and say what I need to. so THANKS HAF!! and everyone who has responded here :) Slowly but surely finding the strength to be more open with myself.

That's good to hear. :)
Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

“I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn’t mend our wounds.