Happy Atheist Forum

Salutations, Godless Ones

Michael Reilly

  • *
  • 83
  • "Is it behind the rabbit?"
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #90 on: March 06, 2018, 12:06:52 PM »
Hi, Dragonia (and all!) My wife believes in God, but not enough to go to church, if that makes sense. She likes the progressive aspects of Catholicism (social justice, community, things like that) but doesn't care about attending church, so that's all good. My two little girls, though...I do fear that I introduced the mind-virus early, and that as they get older, they will struggle with, and against, the idea of God. I haven't explicitly sat them down and told them about my...journey, I guess, but I will. They are very bright!

This is one of those things that, when I look back at being a parent, I am going to shake my head at myself and say, "I did what I thought was right." As everyone who is a parent knows, it doesn't come with an instruction manual.  I did the best I could at the time. My family really did benefit from the community aspect of belonging to a church. I wish that atheists, or humanists, or secular people, had something similar. We are social beings, and we benefit mightily from community. I do miss that aspect of church, very much.

Tank

  • *****
  • 32530
  • Gender: Male
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #91 on: March 06, 2018, 12:34:25 PM »
I'm the result of a 'mixed marriage', my mum was a CoE Christian and my dad an atheist, although I never recall him saying so. My mum took (later dragged) me to church up to about 14 when science and rationalism trounced religion and faith. Just keep your kids pumped up on rationalism and science and I'm sure they'll cope.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Dave

  • Formerly known as Gloucester
  • *****
  • 7105
  • Gender: Male
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #92 on: March 06, 2018, 12:42:12 PM »
With you on the community aspect, Michael, it is one of the very few things I envy about some religious traditions. But atheists tend to be independently minded which sort of conflicts in some ways. Hunanists are more "clubby" but, as declared humanists, fairly few and far between.

There was a group about 7 miles away, in Cheltenham, but it met once a month, had to have a formal agenda to get things done in one evening and had a couple of "social" meetings a year (often in venues pricey enough to exclude all but those on a decent income, top hotels or locations out in the country rather than the local pizza place or Chinese/Indian/Greek... restaurant.) It was run by one very opinionated man and attracted me not.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Dragonia

  • ***
  • 694
  • Gender: Female
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #93 on: March 06, 2018, 12:44:25 PM »
I absolutely hear you on this. I have 3 kids and started them out from their first Sundays, where they belonged: in church. I had a huge extended church family to support us and babysit and check on me and help out while my husband was deployed, twice. It was a beautiful community, functioning how it was "meant to be". I felt loved and valued and a part of something bigger.
It's a tough thing to lose.
My oldest was about 7 at the time that I moved and lost my faith completely, the other two vaguely remember church, but not enough to be confused by my changes.
Now we live in the heart of the Bible belt, and they are older, so conversations happen a lot. They get invited to church, and I allow them to go to the big ones, because it's really just a social event, but I always ask and talk with them about what they heard or learned. They know where I'm coming from, although it was a pretty gradual process of really being explicit about it, and it's very rewarding to have good open conversations with my kids, as they get older and can really grasp some of the nonsense.

We have actually touched on the idea of secular community around here, it's just that being part of a community like that takes commitment, and I love not having church group obligations any more. I did it out of love, but also out of responsibility, and without that feeling of obligation, I don't think I would really follow through on attendance or anything. I suspect that's why there aren't more secular/humanist groups.
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. ~ Plato (?)

xSilverPhinx

  • Non Dvcor
  • *****
  • 18235
  • Gender: Female
  • I Spy With My Googly Eyes...só folia!
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #94 on: March 06, 2018, 02:09:11 PM »
Hello again, Michael! :welcomeback:

I think I might have heard a 'click' down here in Brazil, but it sounded a little more like:


Was that you? :grin:


My family really did benefit from the community aspect of belonging to a church. I wish that atheists, or humanists, or secular people, had something similar. We are social beings, and we benefit mightily from community. I do miss that aspect of church, very much.

I was never a theist, and my parents were not overly religious while I was growing up (though my mother did become a born-again Christian after her divorce from my father), so I didn't have that growing up, but while many people feel it is an important aspect of religion, close-knit communities can be found elsewhere. 

I think it is a lot of what keeps people going to churches -- the community it offers. The worst part is, I'd imagine if you live in a small community somewhere in the Bible Belt, for instance, then the alternative for apostates can be scary: ostracism. Some people are so close-minded and afraid of what is different that they avoid that whenever they can.
I lose myself infused in something more than what they've seen
I'm not a slave to greed
I don't embrace your make believe
I've never been for sale no matter what they think I need



Magdalena

  • Butterfly of Doom.
  • *****
  • 9252
  • Gender: Female
  • Angry hippies need to smoke cheap weed.
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #95 on: March 06, 2018, 07:20:22 PM »
Hello again, Michael! :welcomeback:

I think I might have heard a 'click' down here in Brazil, but it sounded a little more like:


Was that you? :grin:
...
:snicker:


Welcome back, Michael Reilly.    :computerwave:

“I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe.” ~Recusant

Icarus

  • The wise one.
  • *****
  • 6117
  • Gender: Male
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #96 on: March 07, 2018, 01:22:00 AM »
Welcome back Michael. 

Depending on where you live, apostasy or even modest questions about theology can be problematic, even seriously risky as a socially viable point of view. 

As recently as this afternoon I had some recurring annoyance about the ignorant espousals of people like Mike Pence and his many acolytes.  The reason for the current annoyance is that I happened to be reading two different issues of National Geographic.....no not at the same time but consecutively.  Those magazines, and  another favorite, Scientific American are just crawling with perfectly good evidence that our world is actually more than 6000 years old...that some mysterious entity in the sky had not a damned thing to do with our happening to become humans on this Goldilocks chunk of space rock. 

One must wonder why we must put our intelligence aside and be compelled to believe in some divine force or some mysterious thing that has given us absolutely no evidence that we can examine.... Or as the bible has presumed to have recorded: Lord forgive them for they know not what the fuck they do.

I have other mini-rants with which to regale you.


Michael Reilly

  • *
  • 83
  • "Is it behind the rabbit?"
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #97 on: April 03, 2020, 02:38:32 AM »
Hi! Two years later, and eight years after the first time I posted in this thread, your boy is back! I hope everyone is well. The last time my shadow darkened a church door was three and a half years ago. Done with it! Took a long-ass time.

I have been thinking a lot about faith, and belief, and science during these frightening times--I am referring to the global pandemic of Covid-19, of course--and reflecting on how it is science that will save us, not faith, not belief, and not God. In the past few years, I have become enamored of secular Buddhism (the philosophy and practices; not the reincarnation stuff) so that's been extremely helpful. There really are some answers out there to life's big questions...and none of them require magic.

Just to follow up a bit, I told my daughters--now aged 14 and 12--that I am an atheist. They concurred whole-heartedly. The thing I was worried about eight years ago--that I was screwing them up by taking them to church--turns out not to have been a thing. Phew! I have made it my mission to teach them about science, and to think like scientists. So far, so good! We all have fond memories of when they were younger and went to a very gentle, nurturing Catholic school, but the hocus-pocus did no harm, so that's a relief. Being a parent doesn't come with a guide book. You really do have to do the best you can. So far, so good! They are wonderful.

In any event...wash your hands! Be kind. And thanks for listening.

(Is it weird that I keep popping in and out? I hope not.)

Recusant

  • Miscreant Erendrake
  • *****
  • 6897
  • Gender: Male
  • infidel barbarian
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #98 on: April 03, 2020, 04:03:13 AM »
Hey, good to see you here!  :D

I don't think your desultory approach to visiting here is weird, but I admit my parameters for the line between "normal" and "weird" are lax at best.

Glad to hear you're doing well. Keep it up.  :thumbsup:
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Bluenose

  • ****
  • 1365
  • Gender: Male
  • Final approach to HMAS Melbourne CVS-21 (1980)
    • Native Fish Australia
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #99 on: April 03, 2020, 07:30:52 AM »
Hey, good to see you here!  :D

I don't think your desultory approach to visiting here is weird, but I admit my parameters for the line between "normal" and "weird" are lax at best.

Glad to hear you're doing well. Keep it up.  :thumbsup:

Hey, I've seen what's most popular on TV.  I want no part in normal if that's any guide to what normal people like!

---

Hi Michael, don't recall running into you previously on the forum, nice to meet you.  I don't think of it as losing one's religion, rather it's the process of waking up to the fact that magic is not a thing and magical thinking does way more harm than good.  It seems you have gone through this process which can be very difficult.  Well done.  FYI, I was brought up as a catholic, went to catholic primary schools (4 of them in two countries) and a catholic boys secondary college.  100% of my family that have gone to this school have come out of it atheist.  LOL.  So it is entirely possible to survive the catholic education system with your logic and reason intact!
+++ Divide by cucumber error: please reinstall universe and reboot.  +++

GNU Terry Pratchett


Tank

  • *****
  • 32530
  • Gender: Male
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #100 on: April 03, 2020, 07:35:15 AM »
Hi! Two years later, and eight years after the first time I posted in this thread, your boy is back! I hope everyone is well. The last time my shadow darkened a church door was three and a half years ago. Done with it! Took a long-ass time.

I have been thinking a lot about faith, and belief, and science during these frightening times--I am referring to the global pandemic of Covid-19, of course--and reflecting on how it is science that will save us, not faith, not belief, and not God. In the past few years, I have become enamored of secular Buddhism (the philosophy and practices; not the reincarnation stuff) so that's been extremely helpful. There really are some answers out there to life's big questions...and none of them require magic.

Just to follow up a bit, I told my daughters--now aged 14 and 12--that I am an atheist. They concurred whole-heartedly. The thing I was worried about eight years ago--that I was screwing them up by taking them to church--turns out not to have been a thing. Phew! I have made it my mission to teach them about science, and to think like scientists. So far, so good! We all have fond memories of when they were younger and went to a very gentle, nurturing Catholic school, but the hocus-pocus did no harm, so that's a relief. Being a parent doesn't come with a guide book. You really do have to do the best you can. So far, so good! They are wonderful.

In any event...wash your hands! Be kind. And thanks for listening.

(Is it weird that I keep popping in and out? I hope not.)

Thanks for dropping by and keeping us posted.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

xSilverPhinx

  • Non Dvcor
  • *****
  • 18235
  • Gender: Female
  • I Spy With My Googly Eyes...só folia!
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #101 on: April 03, 2020, 12:04:56 PM »
Hi! Two years later, and eight years after the first time I posted in this thread, your boy is back! I hope everyone is well. The last time my shadow darkened a church door was three and a half years ago. Done with it! Took a long-ass time.

I have been thinking a lot about faith, and belief, and science during these frightening times--I am referring to the global pandemic of Covid-19, of course--and reflecting on how it is science that will save us, not faith, not belief, and not God. In the past few years, I have become enamored of secular Buddhism (the philosophy and practices; not the reincarnation stuff) so that's been extremely helpful. There really are some answers out there to life's big questions...and none of them require magic.

Just to follow up a bit, I told my daughters--now aged 14 and 12--that I am an atheist. They concurred whole-heartedly. The thing I was worried about eight years ago--that I was screwing them up by taking them to church--turns out not to have been a thing. Phew! I have made it my mission to teach them about science, and to think like scientists. So far, so good! We all have fond memories of when they were younger and went to a very gentle, nurturing Catholic school, but the hocus-pocus did no harm, so that's a relief. Being a parent doesn't come with a guide book. You really do have to do the best you can. So far, so good! They are wonderful.

In any event...wash your hands! Be kind. And thanks for listening.

(Is it weird that I keep popping in and out? I hope not.)

Hello again, Michael Reilly!  :computerwave:
I lose myself infused in something more than what they've seen
I'm not a slave to greed
I don't embrace your make believe
I've never been for sale no matter what they think I need



xSilverPhinx

  • Non Dvcor
  • *****
  • 18235
  • Gender: Female
  • I Spy With My Googly Eyes...só folia!
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #102 on: April 03, 2020, 12:08:38 PM »
Hey, I've seen what's most popular on TV.  I want no part in normal if that's any guide to what normal people like!

Seconded.  :twitch:


Quote
FYI, I was brought up as a catholic, went to catholic primary schools (4 of them in two countries) and a catholic boys secondary college.  100% of my family that have gone to this school have come out of it atheist.  LOL.  So it is entirely possible to survive the catholic education system with your logic and reason intact!

LOL! Catholic schools do a great job of turning people into atheists. It was precisely through religious schools that I realised early on that it's all mythology. Didn't really care much about it and begin calling myself an atheist until I went to Catholic high school though...
I lose myself infused in something more than what they've seen
I'm not a slave to greed
I don't embrace your make believe
I've never been for sale no matter what they think I need



billy rubin

  • humble azpirant to the throne3 of typos
  • ****
  • 1503
  • Gender: Male
  • i actually do not know what LætusAtheos means
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #103 on: April 03, 2020, 01:58:35 PM »
catholicism is fascinating in that regard

its the only major religion that still claims thoze peopl who give it up: the "lapsed catholics"

at least in america


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?

No one

  • *****
  • 2320
Re: Salutations, Godless Ones
« Reply #104 on: April 03, 2020, 02:00:00 PM »
Everyone is normal, for themselves.