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Origo Metallum

MikeyV

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Origo Metallum
« on: July 13, 2006, 08:51:48 PM »
This thread is a continuation of a discussion between Jassman and myself over the origins of Death Metal we were having in the Songs That Deal With Religion thread in the Religion Corral. We didn't want to derail that thread any further.

Jassman said:
Quote
While definitely a strong influence, I would say that death metal actually branched off from thrash metal with Death's Scream Bloody Gore album (1987). Slayer had everything in place but the death metal vocals. That's really the only thing that distinguishes Slayer from death metal.


I'm pretty sure that the first "true" Death Metal album would be Possessed's album Seven Churches in '85, followed by Death's demo tapes. Of course all of this is debatable, as the early Death Metal wasn't really what we think of as modern Death Metal. It was the origin, though.

I don't mean to say that Slayer was the first Death Metal band, just that they pushed the genre in that direction. Much the same as King Diamond (Mercyful Fate) and Siouxsie and the Banshees paved the way for the Goth/Black Metal scene.

This is a very fun discussion. Thanks, Jassman. No religion, no politics, just some old fogey telling someone about what they remember from the Metal explosion in the 80's. I'm pretty knowledgeable about many genres except rap (I do know that one of the first rap songs was done by a white chick...Blondie!), Country, Hip-Hop, and gospel (obviously - although I like alot of the gospel-esque Blue Grass, like Allison Krauses' "I'll Fly Away").

I listen to a pretty bizzare mix of stuff now. Celtic music (from traditional to celtic punk like Flogging Molly, and the Pogues), Trance, Goth, Metal (both old and new), Classical, Ska, Punk (both old and new), Reggae, classical 80's top 40 (Go-Go's, Tears for Fear, etc...), and so on, and so on.

But, I will say, that in my not so humble opinion, the band that had the most influence on Metal of all types was [glow=red]KISS[/glow]. Nuff said. :)
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by MikeyV »
Life in Lubbock, Texas taught me two things. One is that God loves
you and you're going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the
most awful, dirty thing on the face of the earth and you should save
it for someone you love.
   
    -- Butch Hancock.

Re: Origo Metallum
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2006, 09:48:09 PM »
Quote from: "MikeyV"
I'm pretty sure that the first "true" Death Metal album would be Possessed's album Seven Churches in '85, followed by Death's demo tapes. Of course all of this is debatable, as the early Death Metal wasn't really what we think of as modern Death Metal. It was the origin, though.

You're probably right about that. Another honorable mention would be Pestilence.

Quote from: "MikeyV"
This is a very fun discussion. Thanks, Jassman. No religion, no politics, just some old fogey telling someone about what they remember from the Metal explosion in the 80's.

Haha no problem. Music is the other thing that I could debate for hours on end.

Quote from: "MikeyV"
But, I will say, that in my not so humble opinion, the band that had the most influence on Metal of all types was [glow=red]KISS[/glow]. Nuff said. :)


That is true, but it doesn't mean I have to enjoy KISS! :lol:  I've never really been into the superficial lyrics that seem to write themselves ("I wanna rock and roll all night and party everyday!") I've always preferred vague, poetic lyrics that make you think, hence my unhealthy obsession with Tool.

I should also add that I don't particularly like the early death metal recordings. Death is one of my favorite bands, but the early albums aren't anything special. It was only when Chuck Schuldiner really advanced his technical ability and penchant for writing music focussed on complex time signatures that Death really got good... My favorite album in that genre would have to be Death's Symbolic (1995).

I like a variety of music as well, although probably not nearly as varied as your tastes. Some of my favorite bands include King Crimson, CKY, Refused, Failure, A Perfect Circle, Frank Zappa, Black Sabbath, The Haunted, The Mars Volta, At The Drive-In, and the HorrorPops.

I have never understood the appeal of rap/hip-hop music. I always thought buying a bass drum and playing a 4/4 beat to talk radio would be more entertaining... At least with that you're listening to some people with something to say!
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by Jassman »
[size=75]"You ever notice how people who believe in creationism look really unevolved?" -Bill Hicks[/size]

[size=75]I'm drowning in the fear of gods. The more I see the less I want. I was not raised

(No subject)
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2006, 09:48:32 PM »
:arrow: MikeyV, I'm just a tad older than you are, so please don't refer to yourself as an old fogey.  

Death Metal never interested me, just regular old hard rock.  My early favorites were Black Sabbath and AC/DC.   I still love "Fairies Wear Boots" and everything Bon Scott ever sang (or screamed).  

Zepplin came later, as my tastes matured.  Early Metallica gives me a headache, but their later stuff rocks.  Stone Temple Pilots, Sound Garden, Fuel; it's easier to list what I don't listen to.  Rap, country, opera and Celine Dion suck.  

The last CD I bought is The Exies "Head for the Door".   It's been out for a while, but I don't buy CD's as frequently as I used to.  


"If you can possibly manage the time, please play both sides at one meeting."
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by MommaSquid »

(No subject)
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2006, 10:02:05 PM »
Quote from: "MommaSquid"
Early Metallica gives me a headache, but their later stuff rocks.

I feel exactly the opposite:

Early Late Metallica gives me a headache, but their later earlier stuff rocks.

Metallica was like Samson... They cut their hair and lost their power.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by Jassman »
[size=75]"You ever notice how people who believe in creationism look really unevolved?" -Bill Hicks[/size]

[size=75]I'm drowning in the fear of gods. The more I see the less I want. I was not raised

(No subject)
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2006, 10:13:13 PM »
At the time a lot of people said Metallica sold out in order to become rich.  I don't know about that, but they are certainly miles away from the musical direction they started in.  Their remake of "Whiskey in the Jar" is cool, but I still  prefer the Thin Lizzy version.


Does any one recognize this little gem?
Quote from: "MommaSquid"
"If you can possibly manage the time, please play both sides at one meeting."
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by MommaSquid »

(No subject)
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2006, 10:23:59 PM »
Quote from: "MommaSquid"
At the time a lot of people said Metallica sold out in order to become rich.  I don't know about that, but they are certainly miles away from the musical direction they started in.  Their remake of "Whiskey in the Jar" is cool, but I still  prefer the Thin Lizzy version.


Play the song "...and Justice for All" by Metallica and then, say, "Enter Sandman" and tell me New Metallica is better than Old Metallica. It seems they have lost everything under the surface of their music, the real emotion that used to drive them.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by Jassman »
[size=75]"You ever notice how people who believe in creationism look really unevolved?" -Bill Hicks[/size]

[size=75]I'm drowning in the fear of gods. The more I see the less I want. I was not raised

(No subject)
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2006, 10:30:30 PM »
I don't disagree with that.  Early Metallica was just too fast for my brain to keep up with.  When Mutt Lange started producing them they became like every other rock band.  Too little originality, but plenty of air time.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by MommaSquid »

MikeyV

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(No subject)
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2006, 10:31:59 PM »
Quote from: "MommaSquid"
MikeyV, I'm just a tad older than you are, so please don't refer to yourself as an old fogey.

Sorry!  :evil:  It sucks getting older. I sure as hell don't feel any older than 20 or so. Well, mentaly anyways, physicaly I feel 80...the Army has played pretty roughly with my body.  

Quote from: "MommaSquid"
Death Metal never interested me, just regular old hard rock.  My early favorites were Black Sabbath and AC/DC.   I still love "Fairies Wear Boots" and everything Bon Scott ever sang (or screamed).

Death Metal is good in small doses. It stirs up my adrenaline and brings out the old rebellious side. But you're right. Not much compares to those who came before. I remember my friend and I screaming the words to Big Balls, and I have everything that Black Sabbath ever did.  

Quote from: "MommaSquid"
Zepplin came later, as my tastes matured.  Early Metallica gives me a headache, but their later stuff rocks.  Stone Temple Pilots, Sound Garden, Fuel; it's easier to list what I don't listen to.  Rap, country, opera and Celine Dion suck.


I have everything Zepp ever did too. But, I don't much listen to it anymore. I've heard it waaay too much. As for Metallica, I am the opposite. I love the early stuff, and am not a big fan of anything after the Black album. STP, Sound Garden, Fuel...I love the grunge bands. I remember hearing Man in the Box from Alice in Chains in the 80's. I was blown away.

Opera is difinately an aquired taste. I'm not a fan of sopranos or mezzo sopranos. They tend to give me splitting headaches. I do however like tenors. On of my favorite pieces is "E Lucevan le Stelle" from Puccini's Tosca, sung by Pavorotti. Good stuff. I also love the scene in Philidelphia, where Tom Hanks is explaining the aria he's listening to to Denzel Washington...makes me misty eyed.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by MikeyV »
Life in Lubbock, Texas taught me two things. One is that God loves
you and you're going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the
most awful, dirty thing on the face of the earth and you should save
it for someone you love.
   
    -- Butch Hancock.

(No subject)
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2006, 10:32:59 PM »
MommaSquid, they had great older songs that weren't particularly fast or overly heavy. Maybe I'll compile a nice list for you. :)
« Last Edit: July 13, 2006, 10:41:28 PM by Jassman »
[size=75]"You ever notice how people who believe in creationism look really unevolved?" -Bill Hicks[/size]

[size=75]I'm drowning in the fear of gods. The more I see the less I want. I was not raised

(No subject)
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2006, 10:41:00 PM »
Quote from: "MikeyV"
STP, Sound Garden, Fuel...I love the grunge bands. I remember hearing Man in the Box from Alice in Chains in the 80's. I was blown away.


Grunge is great but I don't think I could run through a grunge band's entire discography in one day (as I can with most bands I love).

Man in the Box and Rooster are excellent songs by Alice in Chains. Nirvana was an awesome grunge band also, it wasn't that Kurt Cobain was a particularly great guitarist or singer, it was his amazing songwriting ability as a whole.

Soundgarden was awesome. Chris Cornell was a much better singer in the Soundgarden days than with the trainwreck that is Audioslave... Which leads me to another thing I'll never understand. In theory, combining Soundgarden with Rage Against The Machine should make an explosive, innovative, and extremely relevant rock band. But it didn't happen... Chris Cornell's singing got worse, and Tom Morello lost his ability to write simplistic yet amazingly original guitar riffs.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by Jassman »
[size=75]"You ever notice how people who believe in creationism look really unevolved?" -Bill Hicks[/size]

[size=75]I'm drowning in the fear of gods. The more I see the less I want. I was not raised

(No subject)
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2006, 03:13:46 AM »
Jassman, you like The Mars Volta, too? Holy crap, I thought I was the only person on earth who'd even heard of them!

Also, I agree that earlier Metallica was better. I'm loving Master of Puppets right now. It's on my playlist constantly.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by TwistedPriest07 »
\<u><===8</u>/ OMG Cockboat!!!1

(No subject)
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2006, 12:41:57 AM »
Yeah, The Mars Volta is great. I may have even downloaded their new album that is supposed to be released in late August*. I definitely liked De-Loused in the Comatorium more than Frances the Mute though. Have you heard any At The Drive-In? 2 of the members of TMV were in ATD-I.

*Fuck you RIAA, I said I may have downloaded it, I didn't necessarily confirm I did.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by Jassman »
[size=75]"You ever notice how people who believe in creationism look really unevolved?" -Bill Hicks[/size]

[size=75]I'm drowning in the fear of gods. The more I see the less I want. I was not raised

(No subject)
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2006, 10:12:03 PM »
I've never really been a fan of Metallica. I mean, of course I agree that their earlier stuff is better, but I just can't get into them. Give me a heaping helping of Anthrax and I'm satisfied.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by TwistOfCain »
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I can show you what it's like.
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"I AM THOTH! AND I WILL NOT BE HUMBLED -- BY MAN OR GOD!"
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