Did you choose to be an atheist because you wanted to escape morality?

[Traveler]

People convert from one religion to another - doesn't that count as choosing what to believe?...

That was something that always bugged me. The quickness of people to convert just because they married someone who believed differently. If their belief was so true, why were they so willing to toss it away? Jews converting to christianity and vice versa, christians converting to a widely different form (catholic to lutheran, for instance). It makes no sense whatsoever.

[Sweetdeath]

People convert from one religion to another - doesn't that count as choosing what to believe?...

That was something that always bugged me. The quickness of people to convert just because they married someone who believed differently. If their belief was so true, why were they so willing to toss it away? Jews converting to christianity and vice versa, christians converting to a widely different form (catholic to lutheran, for instance). It makes no sense whatsoever.

That's why it's all such baloney.

[The Magic Pudding]

You can choose to stop trying to convince yourself you believe.
You can refuse to ever attempt to fool yourself just because others do.

[JustinS]

you can't CHOOSE what to believe

Sometimes, people are indoctrinated to the point where they are psychologically incapable of choosing what they believe, or refusing to accept the dogma that has been drilled into their head since childbirth. Guilt, remorse, and possibly punishment by parents is what children face when they decide to think freely. Social prejudices can influence people to the point where they are no longer able to think outside the box without experiencing intense feelings of anger, guilt, and regret. This is why I am diametrically opposed to child indoctrination, child baptism, etc.. It limits one's mind to new experiences from very early on.

[Sweetdeath]

I agree. Children should be a blank state. If they wanna be rligious idiots at 18 , let them, but things like baptisms are really pointless. I think it's horrible abuse to   tell a child they are going to hell if they dont do what mommy/daddy says.

The big issue is parents should KNOW BETTER and they don't.

[Ali]

Well, despite growing up in a very religious family and trying hard to be properly religious myself for the first 17 yrs of life, I ended up atheist.  The thing of it is, I can't say I pursued atheism, it's more accurate to say that atheism pursued me.  After shrugging off Xtianity, I still tried to find some way to believe in a god but the improbabilities just would not go away.  Atheism was inevitable. 

As for morality, it always astonishes me that some Xtians think it doesn't exist without a god imposing it.  It's like they can't see, or don't acknowledge, the billions of people all around us who are more than capable of bringing consequences to bear for anything they consider mistreatment.  And that's just the start of what amounts to morality.

I so relate to this post. 

I don't feel like I "chose" to become an atheist.  I don't feel like I had a choice.  How do you truly choose to believe something when it goes against what makes sense to you?  It's like if everyone around you said that the sky was red, when all you have to do is look up and see it's blue.  Could you really just choose to believe it's red?  I don't know, maybe some people could, but I'm not built that way.  I can only believe what I believe, you know?

It kills me when Christians tell me "Just open your heart and pray, and if you truly have an open heart, you will find god."  Like the implication is, if you DON'T find god, that can't be because he/she/it isn't there or isn't answering, it must be that you're doing it wrong.  For years in my late teens and very early twenties, I spent a LOT of time looking for god because I had this idea in my head that you couldn't be a whole person unless you had some sort of spirituality.  But I just couldn't find anything that I truly believed in, and eventually realized that it was okay to just be who I am - an atheist.  I am a complete person all by myself; I don't need a belief in god to complete me.

As for morality - I think it's really funny when theists propose that atheists are only atheists so they can play by their own rules.  That sounds sexy and all, but in truth, I'm a pretty boring atheist by those standards.  I'm a 30 something mom in the suburbs with a stable marriage and a mortgage and a full time job.  I'm not out there being some sort of rebel without a cause.  I pay my taxes and (mostly) follow traffic laws.  I try not to lie, and I can honestly say I never steal or murder or rape.  I found a dollar in the parking lot of the Children's Museum today and even though it was only a dollar I still turned it in at the front desk because I wanted to demonstrate to my son that we don't keep things that don't belong to us.  I'm super mild.  It's not about escaping morality.  It's just who I am.

[Sandra Craft]

I don't feel like I "chose" to become an atheist.  I don't feel like I had a choice.  How do you truly choose to believe something when it goes against what makes sense to you? 

When I first started talking about being an agnostic, and then an atheist, some of my more sympathetic relatives advised me to "fake it till you make it" -- belief in god that is.  They seemed convinced that would work, not understanding that's what I'd been doing for 17 years.  It didn't work.

It kills me when Christians tell me "Just open your heart and pray, and if you truly have an open heart, you will find god."  Like the implication is, if you DON'T find god, that can't be because he/she/it isn't there or isn't answering, it must be that you're doing it wrong. 

Yep, fantastic little fail-safe isn't it?

It's not about escaping morality.  It's just who I am.

And the scary part is not that some of us don't need a god imposing morality on us to see that the Golden Rule (which far outdates Xtianity) makes good sense, it's that some people think they do need a god breathing down their necks to behave decently, and what they might do otherwise.

[The Magic Pudding]

I found a dollar in the parking lot of the Children's Museum today and even though it was only a dollar I still turned it in at the front desk because I wanted to demonstrate to my son that we don't keep things that don't belong to us. 

I would have let my kid keep the dollar, a lesson that being aware can be rewarding.
Some people seem like zombies in public, worse probably at least zombies are alert to opportunities to get themselves some brains.

[Sweetdeath]

I found a dollar in the parking lot of the Children's Museum today and even though it was only a dollar I still turned it in at the front desk because I wanted to demonstrate to my son that we don't keep things that don't belong to us. 

I would have let my kid keep the dollar, a lesson that being aware can be rewarding.
Some people seem like zombies in public, worse probably at least zombies are alert to opportunities to get themselves some brains.

Teach your kid to be aware of his surroundungs and belongings is a better lesson. Also, it IS ONLY  a dollar. :< ...seriously.

[Ali]

I found a dollar in the parking lot of the Children's Museum today and even though it was only a dollar I still turned it in at the front desk because I wanted to demonstrate to my son that we don't keep things that don't belong to us. 

I would have let my kid keep the dollar, a lesson that being aware can be rewarding.
Some people seem like zombies in public, worse probably at least zombies are alert to opportunities to get themselves some brains.

Teach your kid to be aware of his surroundungs and belongings is a better lesson. Also, it IS ONLY  a dollar. :< ...seriously.

Yeah, I know.  I felt ridiculous handing it over to the cashier.  And like with a lot of things in life, this situation had more than one "correct answer."  Using it as a teaching moment to be aware of his surroundings would have been okay too, especially since it's only a dollar.  The thing is, when I found it, he said something along the lines of "You can keep that because you found it." And even though that's true, I didn't like the direction of his thoughts.  Sure, you can keep a dollar if you find it on the ground, but what if we had found a wallet, or a cell phone, or a toy?  I know of plenty of adults that would keep a cell phone if they found it on tre ground, and 3 year olds aren't great with nuances, or anyway, mine's not.  At that moment, in that situation, the lesson I wanted to give him is that things aren't autimatically "ours" just because we find them on the ground.  I don't believe in "finders keepers" for most things, and that was the lesson that seemed the most appropriate at the time.  You guys are free to let your kids keep money that they find on the ground though. 

[The Magic Pudding]

You guys are free to let your kids keep money that they find on the ground though. 

As you are free to teach your child the dollar will be returned Easter Bunny style to its owner.
I do wish you well even if I do seem wicked.

[Ali]

You guys are free to let your kids keep money that they find on the ground though. 

As you are free to teach your child the dollar will be returned Easter Bunny style to its owner.I do wish you well even if I do seem wicked.

Bolded made me laugh.  I think the theory I was working on is that maybe the dollar's rightful owner would check in with the cashier.  "Excuse me, has anyone turned in a single dollar bill that I dropped in the parking lot?"  "Why yes!  Here you are!"  The cashier and I actually laughed at the idea that someone would come to claim it, but as she put it "At least it's nice to know there are honest people in the world."

I don't think you're evil, I just think that you weren't there, and even if you were there, maybe you would have handled it differently.  And that's okay too.  Like I said, in a lot situations there is more than one correct answer. 

[Sandra Craft]

Like I said, in a lot situations there is more than one correct answer. 

I have to tell you, I enjoyed your story not so much for the moral involved but because returning the dollar was exactly what my Dad would have done.  It took me back.

[Ali]

Like I said, in a lot situations there is more than one correct answer. 

I have to tell you, I enjoyed your story not so much for the moral involved but because returning the dollar was exactly what my Dad would have done.  It took me back.

Good to know that other parents out there also subscribe to my "Go To Insane Lengths To Make a Point" philosophy of parenting.  Your dad and I are homies.   

[Traveler]

I have to tell you, I enjoyed your story not so much for the moral involved but because returning the dollar was exactly what my Dad would have done.  It took me back.

My dad once drove away from a gas station and realized that he'd been given too much change back. He turned around, went back, and returned the extra. The guy at the station was blown away, and so grateful that he gave him a bunch of glasses (they were giving away free glasses as a promotion). We all thought it was hilarious. Dad didn't need the glasses, and he was only doing what he thought was right. He certainly didn't expect anything in return.

That stuck with me, though, which is the point of this thread. If I find money, or get too much change in a transaction, I always try to return it. Money on the ground is trickier, because usually we have no clue who to give it back to.