72 virgins myth?

[Gawen]

A few months ago Isok, a Muslim here says:

On a side note: I mentioned multiple times that the 72 virgins is a myth within Islam, why are you repeating it? If it's a personal attack, you may repeat to enjoy yourself.

http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=235.105
Reply 117
So I thought when I had spare time I'd look into it.

I wonder if this is the same kind of perpetuated myth of the sort that Muhammad flew on a carpet? At any rate, I suppose it technically is a myth. And suffice it to say that the Qur'an DOES NOT mention 72 houris. This particular saying comes from Hadith.

Al-Miqdam ibn Ma`dikarb: (Ahmad al-Tirmidhi: "This is a fair, sound, single-chained hadith"):

"For the Shahid in the Divine presence there will be six qualities:
1 he will be forgiven from the first moment his blood is spilled;
2 he shall see his seat in Paradise and be protected against the punishment of the grave;
3 he shall be safe from the Greatest Terror [the rising of the dead];
4 he shall be crowned with the diadem of dignity, one ruby of which is worth more than the entire world and its contents;
5 he shall be coupled with seventy-two spouses from the wide-eyed maidens of Paradise; 
6 he shall be granted to intercede for seventy of his relatives.

Anas says: "The servant in Paradise shall be married with seventy wives." Someone said, "Messenger of Allah, can he bear it?" He said: "He will be given strength for a hundred."

Sunan al-Kubra: "Yes, by the One in Whose hand is my soul, and each of them will be given the strength of a hundred men in his eating, drinking, coitus, and pleasure." -  Ibn Abi Shayba, Ibn Hibban, and al-Hakim declare it sahih Muslim.

Abu Sa`id al-Khudri:
"The humblest of the People of Paradise shall have eighty thousand servants and seventy-two wives.

Abu Hurayra:
"The humblest of the People of Paradise in rank shall have seven levels and as he will be on the sixth, below the seventh, he will have three hundred servants...He will most certainly have seventy-two wives from the wide-eyed maidens of Paradise, the couch of only one of whom is as wide as a square mile on earth.".

Abu Umama:
"None is made to enter Paradise by Allah Most High except Allah Most High shall marry him to seventy-two wives, two of them from the wide-eyed maidens of Paradise and seventy of them his inheritance from the People of Hellfire, not one of them but her attraction never lags nor his arousal ever wanes."

You guys are going to like this next one. Most, if not all men think with their dicks from time to time. What better way to get a man to do someone else's bidding by getting them to think with their dick and aoffer promises as...
Ibn Abi Awfa:
"Every man from the People of Paradise shall be married off to four thousand virgins, eight thousand slave-girls, and one hundred wide-eyed maidens of Paradise. They shall all meet him within every seven days. They shall say with their exquisite voices no creature has ever heard the like before: 'We are the everlasting women, we never grow old, we are the refined women, we never grow sour, we are the ever-pleased women, we never anger, we are the sedentary ones, we never travel away, blessings to him who is for us and we are for him!'" Abu al-Shaykh in al-`Azama and al-Bayhaqi in al-Ba`th wal-Nushur.

Hatib ibn Abi Balta`a:
"The believer in Paradise shall be married off to seventy-two women, seventy women of the hereafter and two women of the women of this world."

Abu Hurayra:
It was asked, "Messenger of Allah, do we reach our women in Paradise?" He replied, "A man will reach in a single day one hundred virgins."

Jabir:
"I entered Paradise and saw that most of its dwellers were women."

Abu Hurayra: "Each man among them shall have two wives, the marrow of each of the two wives' shanks will be seen glimmering under the flesh, and there is not in all Paradise a single unmarried man...will have up to a hundred concubines in Paradise while the Shuhada' shall have seventy-two wives".

What the Qur'an really says
On sex with slaves and captives
Qur'an 23:6: Those who humble themselves in their prayers; Who avoid vain talk; Who are active in deeds of charity; Who abstain from sex, Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame.

Qur'an 33:50: O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee;

Qur'an 4:24: Also (forbidden) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess. Thus has Allah ordained for you. All others are lawful, provided you seek them from your property, desiring chastity, not fornication. So with those among them whom you have enjoyed, give them their required due, but if you agree mutually after the requirement (has been determined), there is no sin on you. Surely, Allah is Ever All-Knowing, All-Wise.

On specially created virgins in Paradise:
Qur'an 56:35-36: [For the Companions of the Right Hand] We have created (their Companions) of special creation. And made them virgin - pure (and undefiled)

They will have big round (not sagging) boobs:
Qur'an 78:31-33 : Verily for the Righteous there will be a fulfilment of (the heart's) desires; Gardens enclosed, and grapevines; And voluptuous women of equal age;

They will have vaginas good enough to eat:
Al-Itqan fi Ulum al-Qur'an, p. 351 - "Each time we sleep with a Houri we find her virgin. Besides, the penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal; the sensation that you feel each time you make love is utterly delicious and out of this world and were you to experience it in this world you would faint. Each chosen one [i.e. Muslim] will marry seventy [sic] houris, besides the women he married on earth, and all will have appetizing vaginas."

For you girls, there is not a single "women will get guys as a reward" verse except in companionship.

But just remember, all you male Muslims, that if you subscribe to the various 72 virgin Hadiths, you also have the potential for 72 mothers-in-law.

[Tank]

Most interesting.

[Medusa]

Actually the Arabic word that is mis translated is the word Houri. Not wives or spouses. It means companion pure and equal to the person.

[iSok]

It was the myth about blowing yourself up and getting 72 virgins as a reward for killing an infidel.

Suicide is stricly forbidden:

Qur'an

But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily God hath been to you Most Merciful! If any do that in rancour and injustice,- soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for God. Qur'an 4:29 – 4:30


Hadith:

The Sunni Hadith collection consists of 6 major works.
With Bukhari being the most trustworthy of this six major works.

-Sahih Bukhari
-Sahih Muslim
-Sunan Al-Sughra
-Sunan Abu-Dawood
-Jami Al-Thirmidi
-Sunan Ibn-Maja

Bukhari Volume 2, Book 23, Number 445: Narrated Jundab the Prophet said, "A man was inflicted with wounds and he committed suicide, and so God said: My servant has caused death on himself hurriedly, so I forbid Paradise for him."

Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 73: Narrated Thabit bin Ad-Dahhak: "And if somebody commits suicide with anything in this world, he will be tortured with that very thing on the Day of Resurrection.


The 72 virgins all come from the works of Thirmidi none of the five other Hadith collectors have mentioned this, according to some Islamic scholars a bit controversial.
Bukhari and Muslim are called the Sahih (=correct), they do no mention this. So muslims take this with a grain of salt. But nonetheless accept the
Hadith collection of Thirmidi since there are many hadiths in that are sound and with good chains.
All the author's you mentioned or quoted just continued blowing up this trivial matter which came from Thirmidi in the first place.

The Qur'an mentions Houri's.

According to classical Arabic usage in the time when the Qur'an was recited by Muhammad, Hur'in is made of two words Hur as well as In. The word 'Hur' is the plural of both Ahwar (Masculine) and Hawra (Feminine) which literally translates as "white-eyed", or persons distinguished by Hawar, signifying "intense whiteness of the eyeballs and lustrous black of the pupils." (ref: Qamus ), hence 'the purity' (ref: Tafsir al'Tabari, and Tafsir al-Razi in 3:52). And as for the phrase, "In it is the plural of both 'Ayan' (Masculine) and 'Ainao' (Feminine)", it was also used to refer to the beautiful eyes of the wild-cow whose eyes are blond. In general, this word implies 'most beautiful eye' irrespective of the person's gender. Thus, it seems that the most appropriate English rendering of the compound word Hur'In might be: "Companions pure, most beautiful of eye." and it is applicable to both male and female.
- Quranic description of Paradise, Dr. Israr Ahmad Khan


From a Muslim perspective we are locked in a room, all of us. We see some furniture, a little bit of food, just basic neccesities.
One by one we will head to the door and we will go outside for the first time in our life.
Is it wise then to give descriptions of grasslands to the people locked inside?
Or even mention rivers or oceans, beaches and jungles?
Or then start talking about the sun, the moon, our solar system or even the galaxy?
The only thing you can do is to compare it with the elements that are already in the room but infinite better.

So if the Prophet (s) was asked by his companions about Paradise, the only thing he could do is to magnify all earthly desires.
The same way does the Qur'an.

(3:7) It is He Who has revealed the Book to you. Some of its verses are absolutely clear and lucid, and these are the core of the Book. Others are ambiguous. Those in whose hearts there is perversity, always go about the part which is ambiguous, seeking mischief and seeking to arrive at its meaning arbitrarily, although none knows their true meaning except God. On the contrary, those firmly rooted in knowledge say: 'We believe in it; it is all from our Lord alone.' No one derives true admonition from anything except the men of understanding.

This doesn't mean that some things that are forbidden here will be allowed in paradise.
The goal of every human being in life is to find happiness, whether you are an atheist or a believer.
For a Muslim it means that there is no true happiness in sex, drugs, money, knowledge or power. All of them are pointless activities.
Everlasting happiness lies in a sound heart and submissive heart (to destroy the ego within) to God.
That is what every religion teaches, islam (submit to find peace) in the broadest sense.

Sufi's are of the opinion that the Houri represents the good things man has done during his life.
And that it will last with him forever.

Most Muslims are not even aware of these virgins, as it is a very trivial matter with Islam.
The western world seems to be most interested this, I don't know any of the author's you quoted.

Given, how trivial this matter is and how none of the other scholars have mentioned this, it's still is a myth.

[Ihateyoumike]

The word was translated wrong. It was really Virginians.

[Guardian85]

Who would want 72 virgins? Wouldn't that get terribly dull after a while?

Give me five call-girls who really know their buisness... 

[ThinkAnarchy]

Who would want 72 virgins? Wouldn't that get terribly dull after a while?

Give me five call-girls who really know their buisness... 

I was about to post something similar. If I'm going to be given 72 women, I want whores. You would waste half an eternity teaching all of them... Half an eternity is a funny thought that doesn't make much sense.

[Medusa]

The word was translated wrong. It was really Virginians.

Touche'!

[Crow]

Who would want 72 virgins? Wouldn't that get terribly dull after a while?

Dull in the beginning but more enjoyable as times go on.

But 72! seriously! Would that marriage be all at once or spaced throughout eternity, in either case that would certainly be hell.

"Each time we sleep with a Houri we find her virgin." - that isn't gonna be fun for either party.

[Gawen]

It was the myth about blowing yourself up and getting 72 virgins as a reward for killing an infidel.

Then...it would be helpful if you were a bit more specific in future. But you are right, I can find no Qur'an verses pertaining to suicide in other than not to do it.

There are plenty instances in Qur'an and Hadith that glorify killing and being killed in Allah's name. "The purest joy in Islam is to kill and be killed for Allah." - Ayatollah Khomeini. The big problem is those Muslims less concerned about public relations celebrate and revere suicide bombers. Why?

The Qur'an is rather clever in making suicide a crime while at the same time painting paradise in the most prolific and decadent terms. It's an eternal orgy of sex, food, and aesthetic comfort.  I would imagine for some, if he/she is deprived of these comforts in life it's a wonder that suicide bombings through a corruption of Qur'an and various Hadith, aren't more common than they are.

[iSok]

It was the myth about blowing yourself up and getting 72 virgins as a reward for killing an infidel.

Then...it would be helpful if you were a bit more specific in future. But you are right, I can find no Qur'an verses pertaining to suicide in other than not to do it.

There are plenty instances in Qur'an and Hadith that glorify killing and being killed in Allah's name. "The purest joy in Islam is to kill and be killed for Allah." - Ayatollah Khomeini. The big problem is those Muslims less concerned about public relations celebrate and revere suicide bombers. Why?

The Qur'an is rather clever in making suicide a crime while at the same time painting paradise in the most prolific and decadent terms. It's an eternal orgy of sex, food, and aesthetic comfort.  I would imagine for some, if he/she is deprived of these comforts in life it's a wonder that suicide bombings through a corruption of Qur'an and various Hadith, aren't more common than they are.

As an armchair thinker and probably living in a wealthy western country with not so much to worry about, I understand it's quite hard to understand the situation.
What you might see on the news is nothing compared to what happens in real life.

Are you that naive to think that people will blow themselves up for a couple of virgins, just to have sex in paradise?

The people that blow themselves up are from all branches of life.
Some of them are from broken families, from destroyed families where most of the members were killed during air strikes.
Every month hundreds of civillians alone just die in the SWAT valley because of US drone attacks.
You should multiply every reported casualty here on the news with atleast 10, I have family living there so I'm aware of reality.

What would you do; if your parents, your brothers and sisters, your wife, your children all of them found dead under the
banner of 'collateral damage'? Not knowing why they are attacked in the first place....
I don't think there's much left to do for any sane human being, and this is reality.

If you are aware of Afghanistan, then you should ask yourself why particulary there's only fighting going on
in the south and not in the north (which is now peaceful).
The answer to this is, is that southern Afghanistan is inhabited by the Pashtun (Taliban=Pashtun).
Let's say that traditionally they can be your worst enemy or your best friend.
They demand absolute independence, they'd rather live in hell than to live under the banner of another nation.
And this matter can't really be exaggerated.

"The Pashtun tribes are always engaged in private or public war. Every man is a warrior, a politician and a theologian Every large house is a real feudal fortress....Every family cultivates its vendetta; every clan, its feud.... Nothing is ever forgotten and very few debts are left unpaid." Winston Churchill

The Pashtun, are rain sown wheat-they all came up on the same day they are all the same.... But the chief reason why I love him is because he will wash his face and oil his beard and perfume his locks and put on his best pair of clothes when he goes out to fight and die. Ghani Khan

There's a famous proverb in Pashto (the language).
'A Pashtun will follow you to hell if you ask polite but will not enter paradise with force.'

Because of them Afghanistan is called 'The graveyard of empires'.
So they'd rather die in the most gruesome way just to free their nation.
And I can assure you once again that almost none of them decides to blow himself up for virgins.

If it wasn't for Islam, they would adhere to the Pashtunwali (the unwritten laws of the Pashtun).
I've met people who cling their teeth and keep quiet, avoid bloodshed for the sake of God.
So luckily they have this imaginary Friend called Allah who promises them a better life if they refrain from agression.

[Medusa]

You know Muslims hate Islamic extremists as much as we do. Trust me. Muslims are the number one target of their terrorist crimes as it is. Constantly there are Muslim victims standing against such terrorism. But since they aren't on the America TV no one here gives a shit. Countless times I've had to hear from my fiance how some terrorist blowing up a bus of Muslims or targeting Muslim vacation spots etc. But you don't hear that on the news here. No one reports the Muslims standing up against this. No one watched those videos or reads those articles.

[Gawen]

Are you that naive to think that people will blow themselves up for a couple of virgins, just to have sex in paradise?

Not at all. Whatever the cause for the bombings, these people think they're going to paradise afterward, regardless of whatever promises. So who's naive?

The rest of the post derails the thread. If you would like to tell us the plight of the Pashtun, perhaps you would like to start a new thread in the appropriate forum?

[Gawen]

You know Muslims hate Islamic extremists as much as we do. Trust me...But you don't hear that on the news here. No one reports the Muslims standing up against this. No one watched those videos or reads those articles.

These are internal problems within those countries that sometimes bleed out to other countries. I don't have a clue as to how many would-be bombers have been thwarted by their police or governments. And you know that the news is not reliable in telling the entire story. A conversation for a different thread.

[Gawen]

As naive as Isok would make me seem, as long as some extremist Islamic religious leaders with an axe to grind say suicide bombers will have a place in paradise with the various pleasures listed above, there will be naive extremists bombers.

It is no different than the Pope telling Crusaders their sins will be absolved by marching into the Holy Land and killing Muslims.