"Ask a Christian!"

[DeterminedJuliet]

I have another question!

And this was something I could never reconcile when I was Christian myself, so here it is: How do you know your belief is "enough"? Religious folk often talk about belief as if it is an all or none game, but I have never been able to see how that is so. It always made more sense to me that belief was like trust, there were several shades and you could have "a lot" or "a little", but when you absolutely NEED a certain amount to be "saved" where is the "enough" line?

Even if you have convinced yourself 100% that you are the believiest believer that ever believed, how do you feel at ease about that? Because, obviously, it is YOU that is making that judgement and one of the tenants of christian faith is that we are all fallible in our judgement and ability to discern God's will on our own. And God will never really come down and say "okay, you pass, you're saved!", or even if he did, how could you be sure you will keep that status?

Take me, for example, I went from Christian to agnostic to (close-to) full atheist over the course of maybe ten years. Very gradually. When did I stop being saved? There was a period of time when I probably didn't believe very strongly, but I would pray "for stronger faith" and that kind of thing, was I saved then? Or would I be doomed once the slightest bit of doubt crept in?

I'm honestly wondering because this point used to drive me crazy when I was a believer and I never really talked about it with anyone else, so I'd be interested to see how current Christians feel about it. 

[Tristan Jay]

This is certainly a lot of questions, and honestly wouldn't be productive if I went down the list, answering one after the other. I have always enjoyed the saying that "facts are great, opinions are great....But nothing is greater than when both remain distinct from the other".

It's important to clarify that I'm not here to tell you what to believe in, but I answer questions of my belief, and if you have any constructive criticism of what I believe in as Christian, I am all ears. But the first step in that is to (1) know what I believe and being careful not to assume what I believe in, and then (2) tell me why you don't like/partake in that particular view and this or that is why....From there, I will be more than happy to listen/discuss our differences in opinion and find out what similarities in values each of our views have and where aspects can be agreed to be disagreed upon.      

I understand your point of view. And from what I have experienced, one of the biggest problems skeptics have against Christianity and theism at large is that they see religious interpretation of the divine as not being mapped out to their liking or from what they hear about it, it's not all that great. For some, the idea of religion is similar to a movie review that they have heard so many talk about, and for them, it's a skip. This is why going about and telling skeptics all the great perks and benefit plans Christianity has to offer is usually not very productive, because such discussions have absolutely nothing to do with whether it's true or not.

I can illustrate my point like this: the common conversation between the apologist and the skeptic.

Skeptic: "Ehh....I don't believe the bible to be true. It's not even consistent."

Apologist: "We'll I disagree, did you know this and that fact, I bet you did not.

Skeptic: "This is not true....And you're part of the discovery institute."

This is a conversation that is going to lack any intellectual substance, and here is why: If I was a New Age Neopaganist whose belief is loosely based upon the Lord of the Rings trilogy, it may very well have grand and intriguing consistency to my mystical story, but does that, therefore make it true. Or any more true? The skeptic does not believe the bible to be true, and although consistency might help the bible as a cohesive story, it is irrelevant to the question at hand. Regardless, it is clear that the skeptic is just not interested in the first place. Think of your friend who hates nothing more than scary movies, who has found him or herself in the unfortunate position of becoming dragged along with your group of buddies on the intent of picking out a scary movie for everyone to watch tonight. They pull a horror movie here and another there, and for some peculiar reason, this friend always seems to find something wrong with each and every movie selected. Your friend's sway has nothing to do with the specific movie and has everything to do with their innate presumptions regarding the horror movie genre.

And this comes full circle as to why I can't just go down a laundry list and tell you this or that and have the truth of Christianity spring upon you. Feel free to repost more specific questions regarding my personal beliefs, and we can discuss our difference in views instead of me speaking in terms of "why does God does this/that".  

For example, your question about hell. Your first question could be, do you believe in hell?...What exactly is hell? Who goes and who doesn't? Do I think a hell is necessary for divine justice?, ect. All would be great questions to ask me. And after I tell you my specific views on the subject, you can (and encourage you to do so) tell me why you don't sit well with that particular stance. Such as pointing out something of common values. For example, you could say something like, "Well...I don't believe people should be punished just for believing in something different from myself, and from what Christians have told me, hell severely punishes those who aren't Christian, this is not at all right". This would leave us with a very fascinating topic to be discussed.

I'm glad that your still here, I wondered about that.  It's very sporting of you and Animated Dirt to be receptive towards responding to a wall of text that carries the weight of my resentment toward God, and disappointment with the religious organizations' in the realm of individual spirituality.  My disappointment, frustration, and dispair are directed towards that, not individual Christians.  Your suggestions for how to approach this are helpful, I'll keep them in mind as I narrow down the focus for each in turn.  Give me some time, and I'll try and frame specific questions as appropriately as I can.  Oh, and bonus points to you for name checking The Lord of the Rings, puts you in my good book on that count.     To be continued.

[AnimatedDirt]

But as for the secular things such as TV and computers (which they don't have anyways) would make Saturdays noticeably different for me. 

There is nothing wrong with TV or computers in and of themselves.  They are a tool or avenue to entertainment, information, etc.  It's not that one CAN'T watch TV, it's that for the most part, there is nothing TV offers generally that is spiritually uplifting.  One can "waste" lots of time on it.  Think of it like this;  You go to a family reunion and you spend your time watching a football game and then it's time to go.  A family reunion is a gathering where family gets together to enjoy each other's company, catch up on each other, play games together and all this to simply become closer again.  If one spent the whole time on a football game (I'm not discounting the "guys" enjoying that time) and ignored the family, then the TV is distraction and takes away rather than adds to the basic reason of gathering together as a family.  Another is how society has changed in the past few years with smart phones.  Going out to dinner with family, sometimes I have to mention, "Really!  You all have to stare at your phones and cannot put them down for a short time to carry on in a real coversation?"  It's that kind of distraction that TV and computers can be. 

[xSilverPhinx]

But as for the secular things such as TV and computers (which they don't have anyways) would make Saturdays noticeably different for me. 

There is nothing wrong with TV or computers in and of themselves.  They are a tool or avenue to entertainment, information, etc.  It's not that one CAN'T watch TV, it's that for the most part, there is nothing TV offers generally that is spiritually uplifting.  One can "waste" lots of time on it.  Think of it like this;  You go to a family reunion and you spend your time watching a football game and then it's time to go.  A family reunion is a gathering where family gets together to enjoy each other's company, catch up on each other, play games together and all this to simply become closer again.  If one spent the whole time on a football game (I'm not discounting the "guys" enjoying that time) and ignored the family, then the TV is distraction and takes away rather than adds to the basic reason of gathering together as a family.  Another is how society has changed in the past few years with smart phones.  Going out to dinner with family, sometimes I have to mention, "Really!  You all have to stare at your phones and cannot put them down for a short time to carry on in a real coversation?"  It's that kind of distraction that TV and computers can be. 

Makes sense I guess.  

[Cforcerunner]

I have another question!

And this was something I could never reconcile when I was Christian myself, so here it is: How do you know your belief is "enough"? Religious folk often talk about belief as if it is an all or none game, but I have never been able to see how that is so. It always made more sense to me that belief was like trust, there were several shades and you could have "a lot" or "a little", but when you absolutely NEED a certain amount to be "saved" where is the "enough" line?

Haha, interesting question. I suppose us religious folks just have the feeling in our boot soles! xD

But seriously, theology and religion can be a very overwhelming topic to ponder about. And with so many denominations, mixed messages, variation of doctrine on salvation between different church groups. The important thing to do is to do your own spiritual guide do for youself and not because you'll feel accepted to a particular group of believers. When I read the gospels, I was amazed. When you strip away the VBS Jesus and look into who he actually was, that was what did it for me. Listening to testimonies and secular journals on what Jesus has done is truly remarkable. I can't use this to create an argument to logically conclude Christianity is true, but that would be missing the point.

My advice to you (or your former self) is to strip away all of you've heard/think you've heard about Jesus. And read the gospel for yourself. There is no amount of "belief" needed. Hear out the message Jesus has brought and decide for yourself if you can accept it or don't....It's really as simple as that.

Even if you have convinced yourself 100% that you are the believiest believer that ever believed, how do you feel at ease about that? Because, obviously, it is YOU that is making that judgement and one of the tenants of christian faith is that we are all fallible in our judgement and ability to discern God's will on our own. And God will never really come down and say "okay, you pass, you're saved!", or even if he did, how could you be sure you will keep that status?

Trust me, you'll know. Christianity is certainly a lifestyle. And more of a life complete thankfulness for the grace of God then a life of strict moral conduct. I know when I became an actual Christian, my view of the world and my purpose significantly changed.

Take me, for example, I went from Christian to agnostic to (close-to) full atheist over the course of maybe ten years. Very gradually. When did I stop being saved? There was a period of time when I probably didn't believe very strongly, but I would pray "for stronger faith" and that kind of thing, was I saved then? Or would I be doomed once the slightest bit of doubt crept in?

I'm honestly wondering because this point used to drive me crazy when I was a believer and I never really talked about it with anyone else, so I'd be interested to see how current Christians feel about it.  

I would consider myself once agnostic/deistic before. So I can relate to your view, but have moved in a different direction. I don't believe you ever "lost" faith. I don't believe followers of Jesus, once converting, was in a constant state of pondering their salvation. It could be you never truly experienced it in the first place. This is very common since many conversions are solely emotionally based. That's great that you were praying for stronger faith (assuming those prayers were very legitimate), but it sounds you were a state of seeking faith rather than actually having it. For me, it is difficult to describe the state of mind during my conversion, but it was a long and reflective process...."counting the cost" as Jesus would say. Again, read the gospels for yourself with fresh eyes, the way I grew up learning the gospel was very watered-downed. I also recommend reading Mere Christianity, not for proof of Christianity, but for a simple and intelligent explanation regarding many components of the Christian worldview.  

[Cforcerunner]

I'm glad that your still here, I wondered about that.  It's very sporting of you and Animated Dirt to be receptive towards responding to a wall of text that carries the weight of my resentment toward God, and disappointment with the religious organizations' in the realm of individual spirituality.  My disappointment, frustration, and dispair are directed towards that, not individual Christians.  Your suggestions for how to approach this are helpful, I'll keep them in mind as I narrow down the focus for each in turn.  Give me some time, and I'll try and frame specific questions as appropriately as I can.  Oh, and bonus points to you for name checking The Lord of the Rings, puts you in my good book on that count.     To be continued.

Sounds great Tristan! I will be looking forward to your next post. 

[Stevil]

What are you searching for at the moment Tristan Jay?

Are you looking for a higher authority, a purpose, an objective morality, a group to belong to?
Are you searching for some answers/explainations with regards to your lost faith?

Do you feel something is missing in your life right now?

"Need input Stephanie, more input!" - (sorry, vague reference to a very old movie)

[Davin]

Johnny Five, is alive.

[Stevil]

Number Five is alive!

[Medusa]

Do you feel Mormons are Christians?

[Cforcerunner]

Do you feel Mormons are Christians?

No....Like gnosticism, their theology is just WAY too much of a stretch/contradicting from universally accepted Christian doctrine.

[Sweetdeath]

Mormons kinda really scare me.

[Davin]

Mormons worship Jesus Christ as their savior and the son of god, so I don't see how they aren't Christians. Though they believe that Jesus, the Holy Ghost and God are three different people instead of all the same person.

[Stevil]

Mormons worship Jesus Christ as their savior and the son of god, so I don't see how they aren't Christians. Though they believe that Jesus, the Holy Ghost and God are three different people instead of all the same person.

Seems more rational than thinking they are multiple personalities of the same entity.

[Cforcerunner]

Mormons kinda really scare me.

One of my friends, Mason. He is a mormon. He is a very nice guy, but we certainly have our theological differences.  

Mormons worship Jesus Christ as their savior and the son of god, so I don't see how they aren't Christians. Though they believe that Jesus, the Holy Ghost and God are three different people instead of all the same person.

I understand your point, and you are correct to say they share fundamental beliefs of Christianity, but their doctrine has become so tainted/deeply influenced by another belief(s) system, in which many of their tenants are very incompatible and often contradictory with their original beliefs. For example, they believe God the Father (not being one "God", but being among many "gods") being once human from another planet, residing near a star they call Kolob. This father is married to a "mother goddess" whom had bore many children. Jesus is one of the many "sons" of God (including his brother Satan). Jesus was conceived when God the Father literally stepped down to earth and had sexual relations with the virgin Mary. In addition, the sacrifice of Jesus (the first born) is not sufficient for some sins (i.e. murder, repeated adultery). According to their doctrine of salvation, very moral mormons are able to become "gods" themselves in a similar (if not synonymous) definition as the original father. Needless to say Mormonism tremendously differentiates itself from any branch of reasonably orthodox Christianity. It would appropriately fall in the same category as other Christian "spin offs" such as gnosticism and esoteric Christianity.