What's on your mind today?

[SteveS]

Squid - I enjoy most of the spectrum of Paulaner's output.  Their Marzen/Octoberfest is really good.  I've never come across Tilburg's Dutch Brown, but I really like brown ales - I'm happy to say that I can now buy Sam Adam's brown in my area.

Tom62 - man, I really like Grolsch.  It is definitely one of my favorite "pilsner" style beers available commercially.

tigerlily - when I was in college I remember getting really drunk and jello shots and vomiting green all over the place - I now tread carefully!  I'm more of a beer guy than a liquor guy - honestly, I almost never drink anything with vodka, rum, whiskey, or whatever in it.  Sometimes, just infrequently.  Beer, on the other hand, is a daily ritual!

[tigerlily46514]

SteveS, you actually brew your own????  wow. how long does that take?  

See, i don't like beer.  I get full after only one, and barely have a buzz....so it is kinda a waste of my stomach space, ha ha!!!

While i was raising my kids, i quit drinking completely, never drank at all.  OH, i partied around, but just zero alcohol.

Then i hooked up with C., and he is a partier, i thought, what the heck, i am kinda done with the bulk of the  motherhood gig....and i started having a second youth all over again...so i had to re-discover how to drink, all over again!!!  I was as bad at it as any rookie... Got sick on the drinks that tasted good...ha ha!  Finally figured out less sugar=less sick.  duh.


Oh yeah, you are right, those jello-shots can really take ya down!!    I have a lil purse style cooler, holds aobut 70 shots, keep re-filling it up from the big cooler of shots i have on the boat, and we wander through the crowds in the shallows passing 'em around....so it's not quite as bad as one person having a whole buncha shots...

MY green ones rock!!!-----'Margaritavilles'....lime jello, Jose Cuervo and triple sec...can almost taste the salt on the rim.   mmmm-mmmmmm

[Steve Reason]

I've never really liked Heineken. It taste a bit too sweet and too artificial for my taste buds. As a matter of fact, it was voted to be the worst tasting dutch beer in a blind taste test under dutch students. Much better dutch brands are Grolsch, Dommelsch and Hertog Jan. Like Squid I also love to drink a good Hefeweizen, like Paulaner. The best beer however, according to my german wife (and I have to agree with her) comes from Belgium and is called Duvel (http://www.duvelusa.com/). Other great Belgium beers are Chimay, Kwak, Westmalle, Palm, Hoegaarden and Leffe.

Well, I don't doubt that it doesn't measure up to other Dutch beers. But compared with most mass produced American beers, it's a little slice of heaven.  :wink:

[SteveS]

tigerlily - Brewing the beer takes a few hours, then I let it ferment for usually 2 to 3 weeks.  From there, I siphon it into used Cornelius soda kegs and put them under CO2 pressure for about another 7-10 days to carbonate.  Then, I serve the beer "on tap" straight out of the soda kegs (no bottles to wash this way).  The fermentation equipment is just a plastic bucket - inexpensive.  You need a bad-ass heat source, though, to boil several gallons of water at once - I use a camp-chef propane cooker (85,000 or 125,000 btu's, depending on who you believe).  This didn't cost all that much.  By far the largest expense in my setup is the draft equipment - the used soda kegs are about $35 each, and I had to buy a chest freezer to hold the kegs, a controller to turn it into a refrigerator, and a CO2 tank with pressure regulator to carbonate and push the beer.  You can get the CO2 tanks filled at a "fire & safety" place or some such (the kind of place that recharges fire extinguishers can usually do it - a full tank lasts a long time and only costs like $15/$20 to fill).

It really isn't difficult at all and you get very fresh tasting beer that you can "tweak" to suit your own individual taste.  One thing, though, I ferment the beer at basement temperatures, so the only kind I make is "ale".  To make lager beers (German style) you would need to ferment at a much lower temperature (45 to 50 degrees F) and then "lager" the beer for 2 or 3 months at near freezing.  The most common style of beer consumed in America is lager (bud, miller), and the kinds like Heinekens and Grolsch are also lager styles, so I can't make these with my setup.  But all styles of ale are available to me:  brown ale, English bitters, pale ale, hefeweizen, stout, porter, etc.  My personal favorite is English bitter (extra special) loaded with Kent Goldings hops - yum!

In this fabulous modern world of ours, I can order fresh ingredients on the internet and they ship directly to my house.  Convenient - don't have to drive all the way to the brew shop (there aren't that many of them around me).

[Tom62]

SteveS - that's really a great hobby. I'd love to come over and taste your English Bitter. How much beer do you produce? Are they for your own consumption only or do you also sell them?

[Steve Reason]

Squid-good luck on your thesis!  Let us know when you do decide on your topic.

SteveS--oh, i hear you about the lawn taking over!  It is trying to take over my life --every time it doesn't rain--gotta cut itj again!  bites.  and it still looks too tall between sunny days..

I'm a run&diet coke gal myself.  No hangover.  ...can turn it's strength up and down like a dimmer switch.

Right now I'm thinking about the 500 jello-shots i make for the lake's Labor Day bash coming up.    Our lake has an area called "the Shallows" where everyone anchors their boats, and walks around and parties with eveyone else.  All our friends are there, and the lakers all know each other, forever, like a great big family.   Hundreds of fun people out in the sun.  

We grill out there, and share our food and drinks and dance in the water to the band, which is on some pontoons strapped together.  it's a blast.


If anyone needs jello-shot recipes---'pm' me.  They call me jello-shot on the lake i hang on....not exactly what ya want people to be calling you when you are in your bathing suit....ha ha!!!but i'm kinda well-known for these shots.  I bring 'em to every big lake party.

i myself don't really like jello-shots, but, they do add some fun to parties!!!!  They are fun to pass around.  


time to go cut the grass again...i'm getting a goat!!!

LOL! Yeah, I would imagine that the last thing you want to call a lady in a bathing suit is "jello shot".

I'm a big rum and coke (pepsi in my case) fan as well. Bacardi gold is my preferred rum. That's pretty much the only thing I drink aside from beer. I like wine, but I'm a bit intimidated by it-- plus the price of wine is a bit off-putting.

[Will]

I accidentally converted my step brother. Who was a monk. Now I'm trying to help him to realize that while religion can be destructive, it's not necessarily destructive by default, as he's experiencing the same separation anxiety that I'm sure many here have faced. He's just coming out of the bargaining stage, where he tried to say that god is everything, and that when the bible was talking about god, it meant that everything was the father... yada. I explained to him that if god is everything, then the term atheist means nothing because I, someone who doesn't believe in the supernatural, believe in reality and thus would believe in his definition of god. I explained how changing the common semantic meaning of 'god' is a cop out, like stealing one last hit as you're trying to kick the addiction.

Now we're moving into anger.

I'm starting to think that people like many on this board, should make themselves available to help guide people who are leaving the faith. Like a 12 step program, essentially. It could help people to focus and make their way through the process more effectively.

[SteveS]

Hi Tom62 - I produce 5 gallons at a time, and I don't really brew more than about 30 or 40 gallons a year.  Homebrewing beer (or wine, or most anything that isn't distilled) has been legal in the United States since Jimmy Carter re-legalized it in 1978.  It had been made illegal during the Prohibition era (stickin' puritans) and then when prohibition was lifted homebrewing was forgotten for some reason - until Pres. Carter re-instated it (ref. the discussion about past US presidents, on this basis Carter couldn't have been all bad, right?  :wink:  )

Under the laws of my nation, I can share the homemade beer with other adults (aged 21 years or higher) but I cannot sell it.  In fact, I think you have to be careful about even giving it away, because the laws vary by State.  But, if you have guests in your home they can drink as much of it as they like.  I think you would just have to be careful about distributing growlers to the neighborhood, for example - consuming it in your home (or yard, garage, you know) is always okay.  To sell the beer legally would require special licensing from the state and federal governments (so the politicians can collect the taxes they place on the sale of alcohol - under the pretense of protecting the public, of course  :wink:  ).  So, selling my homebrew would unfortunately be very illegal for me!  I would be no different than a moonshiner in the eyes of the ATF (Federal agency responsible for the enforcement of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms laws - the eye of the ATF is sort of like the eye of Sauron - you don't want it looking at you    ).

The law permits me to brew up to 100 gallons per year, although if two or more drinking age adults live in my house (my wife lives with me, so I qualify) I can then brew up to 200 gallons per year (which is a lot of beer!).  Honestly, though, if you brewed more than the limit I don't know how anybody would ever find out about it - but that's what the law says.

And sure - If you ever happen to be in the Chicago area, send me a PM - I'd love to have you over for a homebrew!

[tigerlily46514]

Yeah, Steve Reason, i gotta work on getting myself a better nickname!!! bah ha ha!            I KNOW--i'll start calling my jello shots "hotties" or something, ha ha!!

Wow, SteveS, that is amazing you make your own beer!!!  WOW!   Wow, it does sound nice!!!  I have known many people who make their own wines or various liquors, but their own beer?  That is a first for me!!!

[tigerlily46514]

Willravel, that is amazing, about you accidentally converted your step-bro who is a monk?  Did this happen suddenly or all-at-once?  wow.
I imagine, having invested all that time and brain power into becoming a monk, that he would be angry.  wow.  he really had given his whole life to a   lie......

I am considering your idea, about the detox 12 step program idea.....know what?  Maybe if we had a specific page or site-area for new atheists to refer to?.....so it wouldn't have to be re-typed up each time, and could be very well thought out...

it could even have a FAQ list....sure, it'd have to be personalized with specific  feedback for each new atheist, and this forum could be a great resource for the newly deconverted, as there are so many really wise people here (like McQ, Momma Squid, Laes, SteveS, Squid, you,  REasoner, rlRose, everyone here is so cool), and also everyone here is so welcoming, so ready to listen and help out.  Very patient group, too.

 but like you mentioned, many of us have gone through similar stages of deconversion....there could be a nut-shell outline of common reactions.....?  maybe not a good idea...?

Anyway, Willravel, i am glad your s-bro has YOU around right now,  I can't even imagine what all it'd be like to be a monk and then realize it is all pretend.  wow.  He must be in shock....what a emotional blowout....Wow, Will, good luck with assisting him through this time.  Let us know what we can do ...

[Steve Reason]

Willravel, that is amazing, about you accidentally converted your step-bro who is a monk?  Did this happen suddenly or all-at-once?  wow.
I imagine, having invested all that time and brain power into becoming a monk, that he would be angry.  wow.  he really had given his whole life to a   lie......

I am considering your idea, about the detox 12 step program idea.....know what?  Maybe if we had a specific page or site-area for new atheists to refer to?.....so it wouldn't have to be re-typed up each time, and could be very well thought out...

it could even have a FAQ list....sure, it'd have to be personalized with specific  feedback for each new atheist, and this forum could be a great resource for the newly deconverted, as there are so many really wise people here (like McQ, Momma Squid, Laes, SteveS, Squid, you,  REasoner, rlRose, everyone here is so cool), and also everyone here is so welcoming, so ready to listen and help out.  Very patient group, too.

 but like you mentioned, many of us have gone through similar stages of deconversion....there could be a nut-shell outline of common reactions.....?  maybe not a good idea...?

Anyway, Willravel, i am glad your s-bro has YOU around right now,  I can't even imagine what all it'd be like to be a monk and then realize it is all pretend.  wow.  He must be in shock....what a emotional blowout....Wow, Will, good luck with assisting him through this time.  Let us know what we can do ...

Sounds like a good idea. It sure sticks with a person. I may never fully undo what religion has done to me. It's definitely like craving a drug. I don't know that it needs 12 steps (I think one those is trusting god or some such thing), but it would be nice to have a resource for newbies and those that are just looking for the truth.

[Will]

Willravel, that is amazing, about you accidentally converted your step-bro who is a monk?  Did this happen suddenly or all-at-once?  wow.

It took approximately 4 conversations. He found out I was an atheist and started grilling me. I answered him as honestly as I could, never intending to convert anyone (I don't like the idea of being an evangelical atheist).

I imagine, having invested all that time and brain power into becoming a monk, that he would be angry.  wow.  he really had given his whole life to a   lie......

Actually his anger stems from intellectual vanity. He's started with the whole "how stupid are they.." type of thing. I feel badly when I have to point out that was him not too long ago. I suspect that it's a part of his coming to terms with what being an atheist really means.

I am considering your idea, about the detox 12 step program idea.....know what?  Maybe if we had a specific page or site-area for new atheists to refer to?.....so it wouldn't have to be re-typed up each time, and could be very well thought out...

I'd be happy to help out. I'm not a licensed psychotherapist, but neither are people in AA.
1) Admit you're powerless against theism.
2) Come to understand there is no intergalactic superpower.
3) Make a decision to turn over your life to reason.
4) Make a moral inventory. Not sure what that means.
5) Admit to your friends and yourself the nature of why theism is wrong.
6) Remove these illogical beliefs from your character.
7) Make a list of the people you've hurt as a theist and make amends


As I'm making this list based on the 12 steps, I'm realizing just how theistic the 12 steps are.

We admitted we were powerless over alcoholâ€"that our lives had become unmanageable.
Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His Will for us and the power to carry that out.
Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Holy crap. Totally brainwashing people who need real help. Shame on them. Shame!

it could even have a FAQ list....sure, it'd have to be personalized with specific  feedback for each new atheist, and this forum could be a great resource for the newly deconverted, as there are so many really wise people here (like McQ, Momma Squid, Laes, SteveS, Squid, you,  REasoner, rlRose, everyone here is so cool), and also everyone here is so welcoming, so ready to listen and help out.  Very patient group, too.

 but like you mentioned, many of us have gone through similar stages of deconversion....there could be a nut-shell outline of common reactions.....?  maybe not a good idea...?

Anyway, Willravel, i am glad your s-bro has YOU around right now,  I can't even imagine what all it'd be like to be a monk and then realize it is all pretend.  wow.  He must be in shock....what a emotional blowout....Wow, Will, good luck with assisting him through this time.  Let us know what we can do ...

I'm sure he'll be okay eventually. I'v just been playing interference between him and all of his theist friends and family. He's starting massive debates and discussions in which is is the smart one, and he's pissing people off.

[tigerlily46514]

Willravel--i LOVE your quicker, seven-step detox  program!!!  ha ha!  Faster results in only seven easy steps!  Excellent!

Sign up in the next ten minutes and we can deliver an additional seven extra steps right to your computer. And we'll throw in a set of steak knives for those having trouble with step #5 up there....


Hey,  put on some music,  i am doing a two-step myself....

[SteveS]

I'm starting to think that people like many on this board, should make themselves available to help guide people who are leaving the faith. Like a 12 step program, essentially. It could help people to focus and make their way through the process more effectively.

This seems like a sound and humanitarian idea, Willravel.  From my personal experience I was never religious - so I guess I truly don't understand what it would be like to have your worldview come crashing down around you like it must when a person loses their faith (esp. a faith in which they have invested a tremendous amount of their emotion and personality).

Unfortunately, that means I wouldn't know how to go about helping them either    I just can't think of any useful suggestion - they would tell me "you have no idea what this is like" - and - they'd be right.  (shrugs)

[Will]

Many people have struggled with an addiction, not just atheists.  If you've had issues with obesity, alcoholism, smoking, gambling, or coffee (so like every American), I'd say you're okay to give advice. Just because you were lucky enough to be born into a free thinking environment doesn't mean you can't help.

I'll have to organize this into a thread.