Laminin is Proof of Jesus?

[Kyuuketsuki]

Why are whale flippers having hand anatomy a jury rigged example?

Are you being deliberately dense?

Don't rabbits only eat their faeces if there is little or no food around and isn't that because there are still some nutritional remnants and/or the food simply helps stave off hunger pains?

Nope, it's an essential part of their diet ... they digest the food twice and get greater nutrients second time round (IIRC it's cellulose that gets broken down second time round)

What about the belief held by many evangelicals that evolution was a part of God's creation plan and that these are an end result?

Obviously I can't agree but fine, if they want to believe that is so then they can do so ... it's one helluva big step up from those creationist wingnuts.

Kyu

[Titan]

Are you being deliberately dense?

The last biology class I took was 5 years ago...I don't remember it all. Please help me out.

Nope, it's an essential part of their diet ... they digest the food twice and get greater nutrients second time round (IIRC it's cellulose that gets broken down second time round)

So how is that jury rigged since the function is purposeful?

Obviously I can't agree but fine, if they want to believe that is so then they can do so ... it's one helluva big step up from those creationist wingnuts.

Absolutely, fundamentalism runs into far more problems than just that though.

[Kyuuketsuki]

Are you being deliberately dense?

The last biology class I took was 5 years ago...I don't remember it all. Please help me out.

Oh come on man ... if a whale's flipper shows clear signs of being evolved from a hand then it demonstrates that nature (evolution) reused components to make something else. IOW jury-rigged design.

I'm not intentionally imbuing nature with purpose or character but this really isn't rocket science.

FYI the last biology class I took was nearly 30 years ago.

Nope, it's an essential part of their diet ... they digest the food twice and get greater nutrients second time round (IIRC it's cellulose that gets broken down second time round)

So how is that jury rigged since the function is purposeful?

Because a designer wouldn't make an animal have to digest food (let alone it's sh**) twice ... a designer would make it a straight forward one-pass process. Again it is clear evidence of nature using existing components to achieve a new function.

Obviously I can't agree but fine, if they want to believe that is so then they can do so ... it's one helluva big step up from those creationist wingnuts.

Absolutely, fundamentalism runs into far more problems than just that though.

I trust you're aware that your arguments are not much more sophisticated or indeed greatly different than the ones the fundamentalists use?

Kyu

[Titan]

Oh come on man ... if a whale's flipper shows clear signs of being evolved from a hand then it demonstrates that nature (evolution) reused components to make something else. IOW jury-rigged design.

I'm not intentionally imbuing nature with purpose or character but this really isn't rocket science.

FYI the last biology class I took was nearly 30 years ago.

If God created via evolution is this still a problem?

Nope, it's an essential part of their diet ... they digest the food twice and get greater nutrients second time round (IIRC it's cellulose that gets broken down second time round)

So how is that jury rigged since the function is purposeful?

Because a designer wouldn't make an animal have to digest food (let alone it's sh**) twice ... a designer would make it a straight forward one-pass process. Again it is clear evidence of nature using existing components to achieve a new function.

You are absolutely certain of how a designer would design? I am not arguing against your point....YET....merely the perspective you are taking on it.

Obviously I can't agree but fine, if they want to believe that is so then they can do so ... it's one helluva big step up from those creationist wingnuts.

Absolutely, fundamentalism runs into far more problems than just that though.

I trust you're aware that your arguments are not much more sophisticated or indeed greatly different than the ones the fundamentalists use?

Oh come on! Ad hominem again! I could say "Your arguments are as sophisticated as my dogs" but I don't believe that and further more it accomplishes NOTHING! You have failed to out reason any of my points.

[Kyuuketsuki]

If God created via evolution is this still a problem?

It's not something I'd agree with but no, the theory of evolution is a biogenetic (life from existing life) theory so yes, there is nothing in evolution that dictates that a god could not have started it all. I'll go further and will say that a god who did it that way is self-evidently more powerful than a god that has to attend to every little detail along the way or the fundamentalist's 6000 year old Earth creating god.

Because a designer wouldn't make an animal have to digest food (let alone it's sh**) twice ... a designer would make it a straight forward one-pass process. Again it is clear evidence of nature using existing components to achieve a new function.

You are absolutely certain of how a designer would design? I am not arguing against your point....YET....merely the perspective you are taking on it.[/quote]

Ah, now we're back to the god being ineffable bit again aren't we?

Yes I'm sure because your god is supposedly perfect and all-powerful and if I (l'il ol' me) can think of better ways, even if only in principle, to design something then you can be absolutely, 100% sure that such a god could not only conceive of it but could do it.

I trust you're aware that your arguments are not much more sophisticated or indeed greatly different than the ones the fundamentalists use?

Oh come on! Ad hominem again! I could say "Your arguments are as sophisticated as my dogs" but I don't believe that and further more it accomplishes NOTHING! You have failed to out reason any of my points.

No, not Ad Hominen ... fact! How do you think I am able to post such sophisticated replies up to some points you've made? Where exactly do you think I honed my replies and built those answers? Trust me when I tell you it didn't have a whole lot to do with the more moderate theists especially as most of those tended to be either silent or on our side.

Kyu

[Titan]

Yes I'm sure because your god is supposedly perfect and all-powerful and if I (l'il ol' me) can think of better ways, even if only in principle, to design something then you can be absolutely, 100% sure that such a god could not only conceive of it but could do it.

The statement disregards Christianities interpretation of the fall. All living organisms on earth were affected, animals were no exception. Obviously this is in just the Judeo-Christian interpretation but it does answer the accusation.

[Kyuuketsuki]

Yes I'm sure because your god is supposedly perfect and all-powerful and if I (l'il ol' me) can think of better ways, even if only in principle, to design something then you can be absolutely, 100% sure that such a god could not only conceive of it but could do it.

The statement disregards Christianities interpretation of the fall. All living organisms on earth were affected, animals were no exception. Obviously this is in just the Judeo-Christian interpretation but it does answer the accusation.

No it doesn't ... it doesn't deal in the slightest with why your supposedly all-knowing, all-powerful, perfect God can't create something even a simple human engineer can't improve on.

Kyu

[Sophus]

Well I suppose it would be more likely to be in the shape of a cross than the star of david.


Give me a break.

[Titan]

No it doesn't ... it doesn't deal in the slightest with why your supposedly all-knowing, all-powerful, perfect God can't create something even a simple human engineer can't improve on.

You mean to say that there is no way for God to be real if He creates things that people can understand? You are also still claiming that those things were flawed prior to the fall. A claim Christians reject.

[PipeBox]

No it doesn't ... it doesn't deal in the slightest with why your supposedly all-knowing, all-powerful, perfect God can't create something even a simple human engineer can't improve on.

You mean to say that there is no way for God to be real if He creates things that people can understand? You are also still claiming that those things were flawed prior to the fall. A claim Christians reject.

Actually, you're the only Christian I've ever met online or in person to claim that everything was physically altered by the fall.  But at least that fits a whole lot better with the evidence, if not with the book.  I don't know the book well enough to state that with certainty, but I do know the evidence.  

[Titan]

Some Christians would disagree with my interpretation, absolutely. But I try to find the interpretation with the least assumptions that explains the most facts in the best manner. I really do recommend even looking at the summary of two books by C.S. Lewis (you don't have to read them, I'm not going to be that demanding) but he has an interesting interpretation of existence and the fall in Out of the Silent Planet and Perelandra.

[PipeBox]

Some Christians would disagree with my interpretation, absolutely. But I try to find the interpretation with the least assumptions that explains the most facts in the best manner. I really do recommend even looking at the summary of two books by C.S. Lewis (you don't have to read them, I'm not going to be that demanding) but he has an interesting interpretation of existence and the fall in Out of the Silent Planet and Perelandra.

Well, seeing as how I just downloaded 100+ MB of televangelist stuff on recommendation of a friend, and it is almost certainly going to be a waste of time, I suppose I can set aside the time to look over some of this CS Lewis stuff.  I thought I read an argument somewhere about him being bogus, but I trust myself to recognize if this is the case, and I've only heard it once which is a lot less than all the other stuff.  Warrants looking at.  Like I said, I'm watching a televangelist.  CS Lewis has to be better.    

[Titan]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON'T LISTEN TO THE TELEVANGELIST! You don't have to listen to C.S. Lewis as an alternative it is just that there are SOOO many televangelists I have listened to who have corrupted Christianity, turning it into a profit thing. If he asks the viewer to send in money please erase the file from your hard drive.

C.S. Lewis most popular work is Mere Christianity but I don't want to force you to read something you think will be a waste of time.

[PipeBox]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON'T LISTEN TO THE TELEVANGELIST!

Thanks for saying it.  And the moment he shows himself to be fraudulent, you bet I'm getting him off my PC.  But my friend tells me he's different.

As to wasting time, don't worry about it, I waste all my time by choice, you'd not be forcing me.  And I waste a lot of time as it is.  I read a lot of internet science articles where I already better understand the information than the article explains it, but then there's a lot of other stuff that I try to read and is indecipherable to me, and both cases represent a waste of time as I gain nothing from the experience.   I play a lot of videogames, too, and those don't do anything to better mankind.  Wasting time is a human hobby.  What counts is having fun and doing it because you want to.  Though I will at least read some excepts before committing to any books.  I don't blindly charge into every mode for wasting time.  

[Titan]

I play a lot of videogames, too, and those don't do anything to better mankind.

BLASPHEMY!

But it sounds like you waste your time with things that are more noble...I wish I was the same.