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America has a problem and it isn't Trump.

Tank

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America has a problem and it isn't Trump.
« on: November 13, 2020, 09:16:40 AM »
America has a problem and it isn't Trump.

In 2016 62,984,828 people voted for Trump.
In 2020 72,609,925 people voted for Trump (so far).
That's almost 10 million more.
That is the second highest number of votes in the history of presidential elections. Obama got 70 million.
That is 30% of the electoral population.
Trumps vote grew by 16%.

Trump is the symptom of American arrogance and ignorance, he is not the cause. He simply gave voice to 72 million people. What Trump has done is illustrate that the American Dream can also be the American Nightmare.
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Asmodean

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Re: America has a problem and it isn't Trump.
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2020, 12:40:37 PM »
You know revolutions..?

Those things where the plebs pick up their pitchforks and usually end up slaughtered in their thousands for years and decades after?

I have nothing against president Trump (The office, as opposed to the man) but I think your analysis is incomplete.

Arrogance and ignorance, perhaps. However, there is also a large Populist (specifically, anti-elitist/anti-System™) component here. How Donald Trump is not one of the elites, or is "one of the good ones," I honestly struggle to understand. Maybe it's the way he talks and walks and tweets..? Regardless, the sentiment was there in 2016, and is still very much so.

One must also consider that economically, Trump's term in office has been kind to a lot of people until the zombie flu, and it's possible that they do not attribute the subsequent fall to the president.
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Ecurb Noselrub

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Re: America has a problem and it isn't Trump.
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2020, 03:23:06 PM »
America has always had a problem.  We never did fully live up to our creed (as Obama says) in that we never truly believed that all men were created equal and that all men had liberty.  We really meant "all white males who own property" at the very beginning, and only gradually and grudgingly did we extend those rights to other races and females. Now that the white majority-minority sees the prospect of losing its privileged position in our society, they are lashing out against that.  It's not always arrogance or ignorance. Sometimes it's primal fear.  The prospect of being equal with "the other" horrifies them. Trump is their middle finger pointed at societal change. They don't want that kind of change, and they just can't believe it's happening.  Tribalism and its resulting racism are as American as apple pie. We enslaved blacks, annihilated Native Americans, incarcerated Japanese Americans, and kept other groups isolated as possible.  Even Irish and Italians had problems fitting in. And women - that's a whole different story.  So, whites, especially white males, are holding on to their privileged position as much as possible, and Trump is their chieftan.  That is our problem.

Randy

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Re: America has a problem and it isn't Trump.
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2020, 04:32:49 PM »
Sadly we have a bad history of racism in this country and it's still there. I think that the white male in general (not all of course) is afraid of getting the same treatment handed to them should equality finally arrive.
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Tom62

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Re: America has a problem and it isn't Trump.
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2020, 04:52:45 PM »
Sadly we have a bad history of racism in this country and it's still there. I think that the white male in general (not all of course) is afraid of getting the same treatment handed to them should equality finally arrive.

There has been major improvements made in the last four decades. The sixties and seventies of the last century were pretty bad in comparison, unless you believe in that critical racism crap.
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Ecurb Noselrub

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Re: America has a problem and it isn't Trump.
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2020, 06:30:04 PM »
No doubt, there have been improvements.  We don’t have slavery, we don’t have Jim Crow, we have or have had a black President, black Congressmen and Senators, black Supreme Court justices, and we just elected a black woman as VP.  But if you lived here, you would see that racism is still alive.

Randy

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Re: America has a problem and it isn't Trump.
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2020, 12:16:11 AM »
Sadly we have a bad history of racism in this country and it's still there. I think that the white male in general (not all of course) is afraid of getting the same treatment handed to them should equality finally arrive.

There has been major improvements made in the last four decades. The sixties and seventies of the last century were pretty bad in comparison, unless you believe in that critical racism crap.
No, I don't believe in that for a second. I agree that a lot of improvements have been made since I was born. We still have some that have the mentality that certain people should be put in their place. I know of three people I'm close to that do.
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Anne D.

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Re: America has a problem and it isn't Trump.
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2020, 05:20:48 AM »
America has always had a problem.  We never did fully live up to our creed (as Obama says) in that we never truly believed that all men were created equal and that all men had liberty.  We really meant "all white males who own property" at the very beginning, and only gradually and grudgingly did we extend those rights to other races and females. Now that the white majority-minority sees the prospect of losing its privileged position in our society, they are lashing out against that.  It's not always arrogance or ignorance. Sometimes it's primal fear.  The prospect of being equal with "the other" horrifies them. Trump is their middle finger pointed at societal change. They don't want that kind of change, and they just can't believe it's happening.  Tribalism and its resulting racism are as American as apple pie. We enslaved blacks, annihilated Native Americans, incarcerated Japanese Americans, and kept other groups isolated as possible.  Even Irish and Italians had problems fitting in. And women - that's a whole different story.  So, whites, especially white males, are holding on to their privileged position as much as possible, and Trump is their chieftan.  That is our problem.

Yup, a scary percentage of white fellow Americans just can't stand that things are changing. i'm absolutely appalled that this is my country. Tank, you hit the nail on the head that our problem isn't Trump; it's us.

Tank

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Re: America has a problem and it isn't Trump.
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2020, 07:37:33 AM »
America has always had a problem.  We never did fully live up to our creed (as Obama says) in that we never truly believed that all men were created equal and that all men had liberty.  We really meant "all white males who own property" at the very beginning, and only gradually and grudgingly did we extend those rights to other races and females. Now that the white majority-minority sees the prospect of losing its privileged position in our society, they are lashing out against that.  It's not always arrogance or ignorance. Sometimes it's primal fear.  The prospect of being equal with "the other" horrifies them. Trump is their middle finger pointed at societal change. They don't want that kind of change, and they just can't believe it's happening.  Tribalism and its resulting racism are as American as apple pie. We enslaved blacks, annihilated Native Americans, incarcerated Japanese Americans, and kept other groups isolated as possible.  Even Irish and Italians had problems fitting in. And women - that's a whole different story.  So, whites, especially white males, are holding on to their privileged position as much as possible, and Trump is their chieftan.  That is our problem.

Yup, a scary percentage of white fellow Americans just can't stand that things are changing. i'm absolutely appalled that this is my country. Tank, you hit the nail on the head that our problem isn't Trump; it's us.

But fortunately not all of you. :)
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'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

No one

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Re: America has a problem and it isn't Trump.
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2020, 05:15:06 PM »
Americans are just plain stupid, and lazy. It's really that simple. As you stated, trumpolini gives a voice to the vast majority of mindless trumpanzees. Anything, or anyone that can do their "thinking" for them, is just top-notch. This horde of witless worms, these bootlicking puppets, and their sycophantic devotion to the orange hitler wannabe is nothing short of a caustic stain on the honor of liberty!

I FUCKING HATE DONALD TRUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: America has a problem and it isn't Trump.
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2020, 09:59:32 PM »
Americans are just plain stupid, and lazy. It's really that simple. As you stated, trumpolini gives a voice to the vast majority of mindless trumpanzees. Anything, or anyone that can do their "thinking" for them, is just top-notch. This horde of witless worms, these bootlicking puppets, and their sycophantic devotion to the orange hitler wannabe is nothing short of a caustic stain on the honor of liberty!

I FUCKING HATE DONALD TRUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Ecurb Noselrub

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Re: America has a problem and it isn't Trump.
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2020, 02:57:02 AM »
Well, on second thought, maybe ignorance plays a part. Today newly elected Alabama Senator Tommy Tuberville (potato town??) said that Paris was happy in WWII to be freed from socialism and communism.  Except it was naziism. Now we know why Alabama voted for Trump. 

Firebird

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Re: America has a problem and it isn't Trump.
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2020, 03:42:47 AM »
Arrogance and ignorance, perhaps. However, there is also a large Populist (specifically, anti-elitist/anti-System™) component here. How Donald Trump is not one of the elites, or is "one of the good ones," I honestly struggle to understand. Maybe it's the way he talks and walks and tweets..? Regardless, the sentiment was there in 2016, and is still very much so.

One must also consider that economically, Trump's term in office has been kind to a lot of people until the zombie flu, and it's possible that they do not attribute the subsequent fall to the president.

Two very good points here.
Paul Krugman, a columnist for the New York Times, posited that Donald Trump is how his supporters imagine they would be like if they were rich, talking like that and making all their furniture gold-covered and building a whole fucking building with their name on it. So it's basically a personality cult. He embodies their fantasies.
And yes, despite all the crazy shit that has happened, more voters approved of his handling of the economy than Biden, right up to the end. There's a scarily high chance he would have won if not for covid.
We are definitely in a scary time in our history, and I'm convinced we're in for a long decline. I'm just thankful I live in a state and part of the country that's actually sane.
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billy rubin

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Re: America has a problem and it isn't Trump.
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2020, 02:11:00 PM »
im in a new job now; sharing a truck with appalachian working class driverz

trump is the hands down favorite because biden is a communist. newz sourcez are almost excluzeivel fox so the reality they believe is quite biazed.

ive already un-endeared myzelf to two of my coworkers by azserting that trump iz bat shit crazy and not supporting the right wing story line.

itz i terezting because they recite the debunked lies about the election and trumpz behavior, because they dont know theyve been debunked, because only fox is reliable and they ingest nothing else.


i would rather be ashes than dust

Tank

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Re: America has a problem and it isn't Trump.
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2020, 03:38:47 PM »
im in a new job now; sharing a truck with appalachian working class driverz

trump is the hands down favorite because biden is a communist. newz sourcez are almost excluzeivel fox so the reality they believe is quite biazed.

ive already un-endeared myzelf to two of my coworkers by azserting that trump iz bat shit crazy and not supporting the right wing story line.

itz i terezting because they recite the debunked lies about the election and trumpz behavior, because they dont know theyve been debunked, because only fox is reliable and they ingest nothing else.

Welcome to the twilight zone!
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.