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Trump Supporter Disorder

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Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #60 on: May 27, 2020, 04:36:55 PM »
I would rather say, it should be a personal choice. I'm going by my situation as is. I'm retired and out of business. But, if I were to do some business I have to take into account whether I'm being predatory or not, or to what degree. The everyday individual that has to make a living may not have much of a choice. We are stuck with an inherited system of economy. I would rather be in a closed social system economy, but even at that it would still require at times a bit of capitalism. Capitalism isn't necessarily predatory but is an open door to predatory practices.

It seems to me you're arguing that "personal choice" is somehow defining of or integral to capitalism. If so, you've failed so far. You haven't shown that capitalism is or "should be" a personal choice. In fact, though personal choice is hopefully an element in a capitalist system, it is largely irrelevant.

Often the "personal choice" presented by capitalism is "our way or nothing" or "this product or forget it." If you want to watch certain television shows when they're presented to the public, you must subscribe to a particular provider. In many cases there is only one provider in your area that gives access to those shows. In a capitalist system, "personal choice" is an incidental benefit that may arise, but it's certainly not necessary. When capitalists have free rein, they tend to accumulate power and try to eliminate the competition. This results in diminishing personal choice rather than enhancing it, and there's nothing in capitalism in and of itself that prevents this result. There isn't a genuinely capitalist mechanism that even mitigates against such an outcome. Sure, competition is part of capitalism, and that will provide some choices, but once a particular entity has out-competed all its rivals, choice becomes superfluous.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


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Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #61 on: May 27, 2020, 05:02:18 PM »
thats the thing about capitalism-- profit is the only way it keeps score.

the purest goal of capitalism is monopoly. there is no incentive inherent in the system to strive for any goal other than elimination of competitors and then maximizing profit in their absence. what social ethics do exist within a capitalist economic system are always injected from outside, and always come at a cost to profit. ethical capitalists are always at a disadvantage in the marketplace.

unrestricted capitalism evolves into robbery, because the goals and the methods are the same.


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Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #62 on: May 27, 2020, 05:31:56 PM »
A·mer·i·can·ism
/əˈmerik(ə)niz(ə)m/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: Americanism; plural noun: Americanisms

    1.
    a word, expression, or other feature that is characteristic of American English.
    "the term is an Americanism dating back to the late nineteenth century"
        a custom, quality, or institution characteristic of the United States.
        "Americanisms such as the barbecue and the swimming pool"
    2.
    attachment or allegiance to the traditions, institutions, and ideals of the United States.
    "Americans in Europe have almost all preserved their Americanism"

Do you believe that has advanced the discussion in any way?
This was intended for the Dominionist subject.
Somewhere you posted my input of the term Americanism was vague and amorphous. -Capitalism is the main stay of America's economy and I include it with a facet of Americanism.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 05:42:23 PM by Old Seer »
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
I'm not a Theist
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #63 on: May 27, 2020, 08:09:57 PM »
I would rather say, it should be a personal choice. I'm going by my situation as is. I'm retired and out of business. But, if I were to do some business I have to take into account whether I'm being predatory or not, or to what degree. The everyday individual that has to make a living may not have much of a choice. We are stuck with an inherited system of economy. I would rather be in a closed social system economy, but even at that it would still require at times a bit of capitalism. Capitalism isn't necessarily predatory but is an open door to predatory practices.

It seems to me you're arguing that "personal choice" is somehow defining of or integral to capitalism. If so, you've failed so far. You haven't shown that capitalism is or "should be" a personal choice. In fact, though personal choice is hopefully an element in a capitalist system, it is largely irrelevant.

Often the "personal choice" presented by capitalism is "our way or nothing" or "this product or forget it." If you want to watch certain television shows when they're presented to the public, you must subscribe to a particular provider. In many cases there is only one provider in your area that gives access to those shows. In a capitalist system, "personal choice" is an incidental benefit that may arise, but it's certainly not necessary. When capitalists have free rein, they tend to accumulate power and try to eliminate the competition. This results in diminishing personal choice rather than enhancing it, and there's nothing in capitalism in and of itself that prevents this result. There isn't a genuinely capitalist mechanism that even mitigates against such an outcome. Sure, competition is part of capitalism, and that will provide some choices, but once a particular entity has out-competed all its rivals, choice becomes superfluous.
Well, as far as I can tell, I can freely chose to indulge in capitalism or not. Oft times there is no choice. Where I can make the choice I do. A year ago I terminated my transport business, and there were times I could have capitalized on a situation but chose not to, so it was a personal choice.  I can also take part in the stock market but I choose not to.
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
I'm not a Theist
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

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Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #64 on: May 27, 2020, 09:07:24 PM »
Yes, in a capitalist system, those with money to risk are free to choose to be capitalists. I think you can see why that's a rather specialized application of the term "personal choice".
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


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Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #65 on: August 07, 2020, 10:25:21 PM »

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Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #66 on: August 08, 2020, 04:13:27 PM »
I've heard about QAnon a few times but had no idea what it was. I didn't even know it was a movement. I don't know what I thought it was. Now that I know more about it I find they are nutjobs. I'll have to look up there manifesto (I'm pretty sure they would have one) to see what they stand for to give a proper assessment of them. It all depends on what I want to do with my time.

I want Trump out of office even if they have to carry him kicking and screaming. I plan to live long enough to see the next four years with a Biden presidency. I want to leave the world knowing that things will get better.
"Maybe it's just a bunch of stuff that happens." -- Homer Simpson
"Some people focus on the destination. Atheists focus on the journey." -- Barry Goldberg

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Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #67 on: August 09, 2020, 07:59:01 PM »
I've heard about QAnon a few times but had no idea what it was. I didn't even know it was a movement. I don't know what I thought it was. Now that I know more about it I find they are nutjobs. I'll have to look up there manifesto (I'm pretty sure they would have one) to see what they stand for to give a proper assessment of them. It all depends on what I want to do with my time.

I want Trump out of office even if they have to carry him kicking and screaming. I plan to live long enough to see the next four years with a Biden presidency. I want to leave the world knowing that things will get better.

QAnon never met a conspiracy it didn't like.

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Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #68 on: August 09, 2020, 08:27:41 PM »

Randy

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Re: Trump Supporter Disorder
« Reply #69 on: August 09, 2020, 11:51:30 PM »
"Maybe it's just a bunch of stuff that happens." -- Homer Simpson
"Some people focus on the destination. Atheists focus on the journey." -- Barry Goldberg